FreeBSD did it again (still)

Thu Jul 6 12:46:29 UTC 2017

On Thu, 2017-07-06 at 09:07 +0300, Heikki Lindholm wrote:
> On 06.07.2017 00:39, Baho Utot wrote:
> > On 7/5/2017 5:30 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:
> > > On 2017-07-06 03:21, Baho Utot wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On 7/5/2017 4:31 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote:
> > > > > On 2017-07-06 01:54, Baho Utot wrote:
> > > > > > Up graded an old laptop from 10.1 to 11.0-p10.  I then
> > > > > > checked out 
> > > > > > the latest quarterly ports.  I figured that FreeBSD would
> > > > > > barf and 
> > > > > > I was not disappointed. Built the ports with synth and then
> > > > > > I 
> > > > > > installed them, xorg promptly shit itself.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > So I typed pkg autoremove just for shits and giggles.
> > > > > > Before the 
> > > > > > upgrade pkg autoremove did nothing ( nothing to remove )
> > > > > > the latest 
> > > > > > pkg wanted to remove all of Xorg and some other things but
> > > > > > not 
> > > > > > remove lumina.  Figure that one out.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Working on figuring this out.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Can you tell me why FreeBSD doesn't need versioned ports
> > > > > > again? I 
> > > > > > am just looking for something that works, I don't need the
> > > > > > last 
> > > > > > version of xyz that just came off the press.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thinking I may need to leave FreeBSD and find something
> > > > > > that is 
> > > > > > stable/works.  An upgrade from a recent version should not
> > > > > > requir 
> > > > > > days to weeks to get it to work.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Not sure what you are aiming at here but - just felt I had to
> > > > > comment.
> > > > > You are probably right that there must be cohersion between
> > > > > packages 
> > > > > and system when using prebuilt binaries.
> > > > > 
> > > > > My way of doing it is the opposite, everything is compiled
> > > > > from 
> > > > > source, the classic *nix way. This way, FreeBSD has never let
> > > > > me down.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think the best approach if you have an older system where
> > > > > it takes 
> > > > > ages to compile, you really need to follow a strict path
> > > > > using 
> > > > > packages. On a more recent system, nothing beats source
> > > > > builds.
> > > > > 
> > > > > There has been a lot of discussion over this matter recently,
> > > > > please 
> > > > > understand that this is not RedHat or Ubuntu, the resources
> > > > > needed 
> > > > > to keep up with building binaries are limited in comparison.
> > > > > If you 
> > > > > need prebuilt packages, please just contribute to the work.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Just my SEK 0.2
> > > > > 
> > > > > //per
> > > > 
> > > > I built the ports from svn source using synth I did not use
> > > > prebuilt 
> > > > binaries.  I did do it the classic *nix way.
> > > 
> > > That was odd. But if you provide more detailed info I'm sure
> > > there is 
> > > help on the list.
> > > 
> > > I only use portmaster due to its ease of use, have no experience
> > > from 
> > > synth.
> > > 
> > > //per
> > 
> > What is ODD is that I have not received my original post that
> > started 
> > this thread, from the mailing list.  It has not come thru the
> > FreeBSD 
> > mailing list.   I wanted to have a look at the headers. I checked
> > the 
> > timestamps on my client box was/is correct ( running ntp ) my mail 
> > server is correct ( running ntp ).
> > 
> > I am investigating why  the upgrade to the laptop has
> > failed.   This 
> > happens every time I upgrade if the upgrade cycle is 6 months to a 
> > year.  I simply don't have the time to go thru this every time I do
> > an 
> > upgrade.  It should just work ( I know some edge case may not that
> > is 
> > not what I am talking about ).  One should be able to update a
> > machine ( 
> > desktop ) and it should still function.  If I am crashing a package
> > or 
> > two that is fine, the whole desktop should not go from usable to 
> > crashing/puking/barfing.
> 
> I think problems are to expected from a rolling style of distro.
> I've 
> been using FreeBSD as my main desktop for half a year now and every 
> ports upgrade has required some tweaking. I've submitted patches and 
> they have usually been applied quickly and stuff has got fixed. On
> the 
> flip side you get the ability to configure the ports (which I've
> found 
> so great in FreeBSD ports that it's hard to go back to anything
> else) 
> and not having to do major re-installs of the whole system every half
> a 
> year to stay current (ubuntu).
> 
> Compared to, say, gentoo, FreeBSD ports has still been much less 
> trouble. On gentoo, in addition to generic ports breakage, you're
> also 
> fighting the ports/package manager that constantly wants you to
> accept 
> packages, one by one, from testing/unstable side or add accepted 
> architectures to packages, just make stuff buidld/install at all.
> 
> One thing I'd like to see in a ports system (if not already there)
> is 
> some kind of install journal and tools using it that would allow,
> for 
> instance, to do a whole reinstall from scratch as in "do what I did
> to 
> build this system, but use the new versions" and it would install
> ports 
> with the same options in exactly the same order (if allowed by new 
> dependencies), or allow removing cruft introduced by some package
> that 
> I've deleted that no other packages are using (pkg autoremove is too
> broad).
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Not trying to be a smart ass, really, but personally think you may need
to consider your upgrade strategy. You kind of gloss over the fact
you're upgrading from 10.1 (which was released sometime in 2014) to
11.0-p10, which is fairly recent. That is roughly three years of
development and changes, in essence, a whole lot of work. You didn't
mention checking /usr/ports/UPDATING, which certainly would show tons
of changes, especially for someone building from source. I would
absolutely expect an upgrade aproached in this way to fail, and would
be shocked if it "just worked". Sending an email just complaining about
something that is completely free for you to use helps no one, and
aggravates people who appreciate all the work that goes into
maintaining a completely free OS.
-- 
Stephen Black <sjblack.00.01 at gmail.com>