Growing list of required(ish) ports

David Demelier demelier.david at
Mon Apr 8 07:31:52 UTC 2013

2013/4/8 Kevin Oberman <rkoberman at>:
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kimmo Paasiala <kpaasial at> wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Robert Simmons <rsimmons0 at>
>> wrote:
>> > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Bryan Drewery <bdrewery at>
>> wrote:
>> >> On 4/7/2013 8:47 PM, Robert Simmons wrote:
>> >>> Are there plans to get the following ports moved into HEAD?
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) ports-mgmt/pkg
>> >>>
>> >>> 2) ports-mgmt/dialog4ports
>> >>>
>> >>> 3) ports-mgmt/portaudit
>> >>>
>> >>> 4) ports-mgmt/portmaster
>> >>>
>> >>> It seems to me like these belong in the base system.
>> >>
>> >> On the contrary, the idea is that more and more should come *out of
>> >> base* and into ports. Base is very static and stuck in time. By moving
>> >> these things into ports, you are able to get updates much simpler. No
>> >> need for an errata or security advisory or release. Just updating with
>> >> portmaster/pkg upgrade.
>> >
>> > I understand where you're coming from, but perhaps there needs to be
>> > movement in both directions.
>> >
>> > I may be way off the mark here, but I'd love to spark a discussion
>> > about this.  I think that in general things that are directly FreeBSD
>> > projects belong in base.  Examples would be pkgng, and making
>> > dialog4ports a switch in dialog(1).  Essentially, code that does not
>> > have an upstream should be in base.
>> >
>> > On the other hand, there are a number of things that I think should be
>> > pulled out of base.  Some already have ports, and others would need
>> > ports created.  Examples of things to pull out of base are OpenSSL,
>> > Heimdal, OpenSSH, PF, ntpd, ipfilter, bind, sendmail, and others.
>> > Code that is typically way behind the upstream project basically.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> portaudit is not needed with pkg, just use 'pkg audit'.
>> >
>> > I had missed that.  Thanks!
>> >
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Also, is there a reason why dialog4ports's functionality wasn't added
>> >>> to dialog(1) as a switch?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Bryan Drewery
>> >> bdrewery at freenode/EFNet
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> I think Bryan already explained the reasons why pkg should not be in
>> base, it's an external tool that is not strictly required to get a bare
>> bones FreeBSD system up and running. Including it in base you create
>> yet another maintainance burden and would slow down the development of
>> the ports/packages management tools.
>> -Kimmo
> What people seem to miss is that putting tools into the base system
> strangles the tools. Look at the difficulty we have seen in updating
> openssl. perl was removed from base for exactly that reason. Once something
> is in base, it usually can only be updated  on major releases and even then
> it can be very complicated. That is a problem for any dynamically changing
> tool.
> I would love to see BIND removed from base, but most of the things  you
> listed really are hard to remove. I know that I don't want to try bringing
> up a new install of FreeBSD on a remote system without OpenSSH and that
> pulls in openssl.  In the case of many tools, it really turns into a
> bikeshed. But i can see no reason to add any of the new packaging tools
> simply because it is critical that updates be possible far  more often than
> is possible for the base system.

BIND will be removed for sure (bapt@ told me that ;-)). I also think
BIND should be removed because it's the principal reason why there are
security advisories (almost all of them are BIND related).

For me I also wanted pkg to be in base but they made a bootstrap that
does not need any other requirement so I stick with that and I'm

I agree that is quite different from any Linux distribution where you
always have a package management directly installed, but as some said
above you can install a FreeBSD server and may not require any
external packages or the server will not requiring installing external
ports so that's probably why portmaster will never be put in base.


Demelier David

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