Growing list of required(ish) ports

[Bryan Drewery]

On 4/8/2013 1:55 AM, Robert Simmons wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 1:11 AM, Kevin Oberman <rkoberman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Kimmo Paasiala <kpaasial at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Robert Simmons <rsimmons0 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Bryan Drewery <bdrewery at freebsd.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 4/7/2013 8:47 PM, Robert Simmons wrote:
>>>>>> Are there plans to get the following ports moved into HEAD?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) ports-mgmt/pkg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) ports-mgmt/dialog4ports
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) ports-mgmt/portaudit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) ports-mgmt/portmaster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to me like these belong in the base system.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the contrary, the idea is that more and more should come *out of
>>>>> base* and into ports. Base is very static and stuck in time. By moving
>>>>> these things into ports, you are able to get updates much simpler. No
>>>>> need for an errata or security advisory or release. Just updating with
>>>>> portmaster/pkg upgrade.
>>>>
>>>> I understand where you're coming from, but perhaps there needs to be
>>>> movement in both directions.
>>>>
>>>> I may be way off the mark here, but I'd love to spark a discussion
>>>> about this.  I think that in general things that are directly FreeBSD
>>>> projects belong in base.  Examples would be pkgng, and making
>>>> dialog4ports a switch in dialog(1).  Essentially, code that does not
>>>> have an upstream should be in base.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, there are a number of things that I think should be
>>>> pulled out of base.  Some already have ports, and others would need
>>>> ports created.  Examples of things to pull out of base are OpenSSL,
>>>> Heimdal, OpenSSH, PF, ntpd, ipfilter, bind, sendmail, and others.
>>>> Code that is typically way behind the upstream project basically.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> portaudit is not needed with pkg, just use 'pkg audit'.
>>>>
>>>> I had missed that.  Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, is there a reason why dialog4ports's functionality wasn't added
>>>>>> to dialog(1) as a switch?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Bryan Drewery
>>>>> bdrewery at freenode/EFNet
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> I think Bryan already explained the reasons why pkg should not be in
>>> base, it's an external tool that is not strictly required to get a bare
>>>
>>> bones FreeBSD system up and running. Including it in base you create
>>> yet another maintainance burden and would slow down the development of
>>> the ports/packages management tools.
>>>
>>> -Kimmo
>>
>>
>> What people seem to miss is that putting tools into the base system
>> strangles the tools. Look at the difficulty we have seen in updating
>> openssl. perl was removed from base for exactly that reason. Once something
>> is in base, it usually can only be updated  on major releases and even then
>> it can be very complicated. That is a problem for any dynamically changing
>> tool.
>>
>> I would love to see BIND removed from base, but most of the things  you
>> listed really are hard to remove. I know that I don't want to try bringing
>> up a new install of FreeBSD on a remote system without OpenSSH and that
> 
> OpenSSH is the only one that doesn't follow the same pattern.  It
> seems that the port of it has been abandoned going on 2 years.  It is
> lagging far far behind 9-stable which looks like DES bumped to 6.1 and
> HEAD has been bumped to 6.2p1.

This is my fault. I am working on updating it to 6.2 for after the freeze.

> 
>> pulls in openssl.  In the case of many tools, it really turns into a
>> bikeshed. But i can see no reason to add any of the new packaging tools
>> simply because it is critical that updates be possible far  more often than
>> is possible for the base system.
>> --
>> R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
>> E-mail: rkoberman at gmail.com
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-- 
Regards,
Bryan Drewery
bdrewery at freenode/EFNet

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