Leaving the group

Andy Sporner asporner at yahoo.com
Sat Jun 12 07:11:52 GMT 2004

Hello Allan,

I agree with some of your points and will keep this short. I am very 
happy that you choose tempered language.  You have my respect for this.  
You have made some points that I have to at least in principle to agree
with.  However principles are a two way street.

Some replies:

   1.  Definately not Microsoftish!  I am not that strapped for cash
       to privatize for this reason.  It is simply a matter of motivation.
       Until recently when I realized how many people are using this
       I thought to myself, "What am I doing this for!???"  No insult
       taken by the way--just a point of clarification.

   2.  Check out the NetBSD project server,  I have still a low two
       digit number.  The project started there and was moved to 
       FreeBSD about two years ago, when my work project 
       http://www.nitro-switch.de) also was switched to FreeBSD.

   2.  I am too busy building exciting new loadbalancers and routers
       too do this things to put the final polish on the software.  
       the basic stuff just works.  I have asked NUMEROUS times for
       help to finish it.  When I was in college there was plenty of
       time for this but the working (and social) world makes other
       demands.  This other project seems to be a school project. 
       There is nothing wrong with that--it's just that they typically
       have many more resources that can be used.

> What I saw here was simply someone asking about HA clustering, and a simple 
> response along the lines of "check out this website" for a website that 
> wasn't yours, at which point you flew off the handle about people not 
> reading the list, and not supporting "projects grounded in the freebsd 
> world."  You apparently feel slighted that a website/project other than 
> yours was mentioned, or even exists.

       I Flew off the handle because this is not the first time, but
       about the 4th or 5th time.

> After seeing both links here and checking them out, I come away with the 
> impression that you have a very new project (I know you said 1997, I'm 
> talking impressions) and that you're the only person involved in it.

       People always speak of "community" but never really practice it.
       I lived in a real community (http://www.procopious.org) While 
       certainly this is not a religious group there are certain tenets 
       that are very applicable here that just are not present! 
       I see instead much evidence of social darwinism, which is the
       antithesis of good community.  

       If it's all about survival of the fittest--I will take a pass.

       So far the people who are using the software have had no problems
       (evidently) with it and so the documentation was enough.  I admit
       it lacks what it should have but it's all about time and volunteers.

       I agree documentation is sorely lacking, but I can't do both.
       I never said this was a closed project...

> If this has not always been the case, and is being fixed soon, then this is 
> all moot.  If however this is how it's "always been", I can perfectly 
> understand why your work may be seemingly ignored, and why it wouldn't have 
> made a memorable impression on me even if I had seen it in the past.  Right 
> now, first impression is "Here's a patch for some version of FreeBSD, you 
> figure out which.  It's cool, try it, tell me if you like what it does."

      To date several people have have stepped up to held on this 
      documentation because I simply have no time for this,  I am
      still waiting.   As I said, a student project will always win
      in cases like this.

      Until now I have never heard from you.  If you waited so long,
      than why didn't you say something???  How much could a paragraph
      worth of email could have cost--considering how much time I have
      so far wrapped up in this project???

      I am not moved by money here--but a little satisfaction or 
      constructive criticism when it would have been helpful would have
      been nice.
> Now, all that aside, you've really, in my eyes, come off as the bad guy 
> here.  To run the risk of a great insult, you sound rather "microsoftish" 
> in your response -- angry that your project has any competition, 

       Certainly not, I was simply angry because after all the work I
       did and all the times in THIS GROUP I have made mention of it
       that at least it was not in the list of things to try--I was
       very dissappointed
> Competition and choice are the very heart of what the FreeBSD project is 
> all about, and you seem to have lost sight of that.
      I also lost sight of where "people helping people" have gone to as
      well.  Not just b-tching when something doesn't fit their fancy or
      nobody ever bothers to ask questions before making a decision.  This
      all smacks of what is wrong with the world today.  It's all about 
      fast food, instant gratification and more more more--without the
      social expenses.  Community??? Really....

I really laugh sometimes.  People have borrowed the word "Community"
from the Linux folks, but people here (not necessarily in this group)
complain about linux.  I know I have at times and I still think for
good reason.  But they have one thing right.  THey have, "The Linux 
Router Project", or "The linux hi-availability project"  ad nasuem...

I thought since I was so far the first to step up to this that this
was the "FreeBSD HA project" but I was sorely mistaken evidently.

However, this exchange has given enough merit to continue perhaps a 
little more effort here.  I won't put times into the schedule because 
everytime I do I end up putting my foot in my mouth.  I am one person 
who has a very heavy work schedule outside of this.  The Nitro-switch 
contains a driver that is more than 50,000 lines of code, of which I 
have done almost half not withstanding that I did the major design 
of the device--including the high availablity, which is based on the 
software I offered here.

Stay tuned...


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