Jerry jerry at
Sun Jul 11 19:21:27 UTC 2021

On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 12:54:30 -0400, Paul Procacci stated:
>On Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:58 PM David Raver <david.raver at>
>> To Whom It May Concern:
>> This is not merely a question, it's mostly a complaint. Let me
>> explain.
>> Some time ago I started a (c++) project which I wanted to make as
>> general (in an OS sense) as possible.
>> Meaning: the same source (with as little of ifdefs as possible)
>> should compile, link and run on as many operating systems as
>> possible.
>> So... out of the BSD family I chose FreeBSD as I'd read/heard that
>> it had been... well... the best.
>> I installed it into a VirtualBox. Can't remember how, but it was
>> what a developer needed: a graphical environment, everything easily
>> accessible. As it should be.
>> Then the project was put aside for quite some time until a couple of
>> months ago when it's extensive generalization was brought to a stage
>> when it worked on Linux, MacOS and Windows, it's primary systems.
>> So, I fired a VirtualBox up again meaning to try to build it on
>> FreeBSD. Sadly it didn't work. Not that it didn't compile. It did.
>> The linker failed, though.
>> Researching why, I came to a conclusion that it's version didn't
>> support what I'd needed. OK, I said, an upgrade should fix that.
>> Not being small-time I decided to not only upgrade the c++ (g++)
>> development platform, but rather the whole operating system. I
>> looked up (on Google) how to do it and... I did it. I mean I started
>> the upgrade.
>> Pay attention now because here it's where it all starts: the upgrade
>> failed in such a way that not only the c++ development platform was
>> unusable, but the OS refused to boot. All I'd seen had been a black
>> screen.
>> Steam started to blow out of my ears, but I still kept it together.
>> OK, I said, maybe the upgrade wasn't a good decision anyway.
>> Let's start from scratch and install the latest version (13) which
>> will automatically solve all of the problems.
>> Fired up a VirtualBox, created a new machine using the downloaded (
>> file. Booted up with the option 1
>> (multiple
>> users, as it should be the usual case, right?).
>> Instead of the expected GUI and some dialogs creating the user
>> account I was met with the console demanding username and password
>> from me. What?!? The first thing that went through my mind was that
>> if this had been the case with a certain Microsoft's operating
>> system, it surely wouldn't have had the market share it has today.
>> After a little research (man, I love the small print!) on your page
>> I came up with the account data and logged in. OK, I said, this
>> isn't going to do. I need a GUI and some developer tools. Let's
>> install that. But, the OS said, you can't do that unless you're a
>> superuser. No problem. Tried sudo as I'm used to from Linux. Nope.
>> Tried su. It said: "Sorry". What?!?
>> Google helped again: in order to do that one must choose option 2
>> while booting. Fsck!?! Obviously one must have a BSD degree to use a
>> computer. OK, after a restart (and successful su) I googled about
>> installing a GUI (KDE to be exact). Being unpleasantly surprised
>> that, instead of a oneliner, one has to buy a new keyboard with an
>> extended life expectancy in order to type an equivalent of Tolstoy's
>> War and Peace. Man, how hard is it to put something in a shell
>> script?!?
>> Before embarking on such an enterprise, I read some more small print
>> and found out that, before that, one has to install X (probably
>> demanding another fresh keyboard). And before that one has to
>> install something else still.
>> Can't remember what because I shut the OS down and hit a couple of
>> dels removing everything even remotely related to FreeBSD from my
>> computer.
>> So, before yous geniuses decide to make an OS even remotely usable
>> so that an average developer doesn't need to have a doctorate of
>> General BSDvity Theory in order to use it, it's Goodby from me
>> Argentina.
>> D.
>It's okay to fail and blame your failure on your lack of abilities.
>No one here will hold that against you.
>FreeBSD is superior to most others in many many ways.
>Surely it has some warts, but they are far and few between.
>I've been saying this for 3 decades now and I continue to say it.
>FreeBSD is an administrators' OS at heart.
>Whether true or not at this point in time is mostly irrelevant to me
>only that I still say it.
>YOU failed to conquer it; that's no one else's fault but your own.

I have never considered a PC or an OS something to be conquered. The PC
runs an OS. The OS's job, and its various applications, sole
purpose is to make my life easier. Yoda's most memorable line, "Do Or
Do Not. There Is No Try" is most apropos here. I don't care who the
author is or what the cost is, if it doesn't make my job, hobby, or
whatever I am employing the OS for more effortless, then it is not very
helpful to me.

I have found several things that FBSD does that make my life easier
and more productive. I have also discovered numerous examples of where
it is counterproductive. I have learned the hard way; you can't make a
silk purse out of a sow's ear. The following bug made FreeBSD 12+ and
13.0 unusable for several users.
<>. It took
over a year to squash that bug. Once upon a time, I would have
considered that absurd, now I just think of it as business as usual.

I think the OP needs to understand that no single OS is the ultimate
answer to his problems. The OP had set his sights way too high. In all
honestly, I did sort of the same thing. In my years of using FBSD
alongside other OSs, I have mellowed. I have learned that banging my
head against a wall only hurts my head.

I hope one day after the OP settles in with whatever OS he has
determined best suits his needs, he will consider giving FBSD another
look. Hopefully, this time with more realistic expectations.

And that is my 2¢.


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