Technological advantages over Linux

[Julien Cigar]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:02:26PM +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote:
> Julien Cigar wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > The insanity of systemd is a large part of what convinced me
> > > > to migrate all my personal machines from GNU/Linux to FreeBSD
> > > > a couple of years ago.
> > > 
> > > I've just come across two related things which may convince me to
> > > migrate some machines from FreeBSD to Debian.
> > > 
> > > 1. On Debian, you can run several instances of php-fpm with different
> > > PHP versions in them.
> > > 
> > > 2. On Debian, you can install and run several versions of PostgreSQL
> > > simultaneously thanks to the pg_createcluster/pg_lsclusters/...
> > > infrastructure.
> > > 
> > > All that from standard packages, without manual compiling and tweaking,
> > > jails etc, with minimal effort.
> > 
> > that's true, but once you setup a dedicated Poudriere machine, 
> 
> I do have a dedicated Poudriere machine. It can *build* different
> versions and combinations of PHP/whatever (even that not always unless
> you build separate -z sets with different make.conf files),
> unfortunately you cannot *install* them simultaneously.
> 
> > that all
> > your deployments are happening in jails, 
> 
> *All" deployments in jails is an overkill.
> 

why? jails are so lightweight and are created almost instantly.. 

> Using jails will be especially counterproductive in case of PostgreSQL
> because you will not be able to do smart things like 
> "pg_update --link --old-datadir XXX --new-datadir YYY".

there are workarounds, see 20190829 un ports/UPDATING for an example.

> 
> > that you use some CMS (like
> > SaltStack), and that everything is based on ZFS it's a *lot* easier to
> > maintain on the long term, and you have a lot of flexibility. I think
> 
> I don't quite agree with you. Keeping multiple jails in an updated
> state, and building multiple Poudriere sets (combination of packages)
> for all your service jails is a huge administrative overhead best
> avoided when not absolutely necessary.

that's what I'm doing here and it's perfectly manageable (with 
SaltStack)..

> 
> > 
> > I have to deal with some very old (15+ years) shit at work that isn't
> > updated but has to be accessible (webapps) (don't ask) and thanks to
> > jails and things like rctl I could stil use that latest -RELEASE while
> > isolating the old shit in 10.x-RELEASE jails. Try to do that with
> > Linux.. (I don't say it's impossible but it would require a lot more
> > work IMHO)
> 
> That's a different matter when the use of jails is justified. However,
> for having nice and supported php72 and php73 packages simultaneously
> you don't need such security measures. After all, FreeBSD has learned to
> have different versions of Python.
> 
> PS Debian's pg_*cluster framework rocks!
> 
> -- 
> Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
> 2:5005/49 at fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/



-- 
Julien Cigar
Belgian Biodiversity Platform (http://www.biodiversity.be)
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