thunderbird in German?

hw hw at
Sun Aug 4 00:14:02 UTC 2019

Polytropon <freebsd at> writes:

> On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:10:56 +0200, hw wrote:
>> Polytropon <freebsd at> writes:
>> > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 01:22:42 +0200, hw wrote:
>> >> Polytropon <freebsd at> writes:
>> >> 
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > If I remember correctly, $LANG has precedence over $LC_* if set.
>> > However, I'm not sure every program conforms to this rule... and
>> > I'm questioning Mozilla software following established rules and
>> > consensus. ;-)
>> Right, the programmers seem to be stupd kids who can't do anything but
>> play with dumbphones.
> My impression is that programmers often don't care.

They do whatever they want.  At the same time, they keep asking for help
which they never want.

> While it has been good practice for decades to use -Wall and its
> equivalents, it doesn't seem to be important anymore.  Compile time
> errors and warnings are irrelevant just as runtime warnings and
> errors.

My impression is that software is now generally much more stable than it
used to be.  I don't know why, perhaps better tools became available.

> You can easily verify this by launching any "modern" Gtk or Qt program
> from a terminal, say, Firefox, Gimp, and so on.

You mean the messages they're printing and nobody knows what they are
about?  I have written a small program in perl that uses Gtk and it
prints a message when I quit it.  There is no reason for it to do that,
so what should I do:

        (in cleanup)    (in cleanup)  at /usr/local/lib/perl/ line 163 during global destruction.

Line 163 disconnects from the database, using the disconnect method of
DBI.  There is no such message in programs without Gtk, doing the same
thing, using the same source.  It seems such messages show up for no

> I also see this attitude applies to documentation, which is scattered
> across the web, in wikis, user pages, discussion forums, outdated
> project pages and so on. Even program sets intended for professional
> use such as The SleuthKit have moved their documentation online, which
> makes it inaccessible (!) in certain circumstances, especially
> security-related ones where you are not permitted to connect to
> outside (online) resources. In such a situation, "man mencoder" was
> really helpful (I had to deal with those special circumstances for a
> few times, it's not pretty).


> Churning out new versions and new features often seems to be
> more important that fixing bugs or working against bad decisions.
> Doing it right for everyone is impossible, I know, but a certain
> amount of "good old common sense" should be applied more. :-)

These kids don't have that.  How could they?

>> Be careful or we will be called trolls.  Nowadays, you just /have/ to
>> click on all the like buttons regardless how much something sucks;
>> otherwise you're a troll.
> I will remember that, so people don't start feeding me. ;-)

don't feed the like buttons

The ones who do are the real trolls.

>> > Because it's left to the users to find out how to do "nonstandard"
>> > things like intending to change the interface language. Because
>> > all the world only the English always! ;-)
>> and right handed, of course
> Remember that traditional X (and X applications using the XMotif
> and Xaw / Xaw3d toolkits, if I remember correctly) provides a
> "/ shaped" mouse pointer (instead of the traditional \ one), and
> it can be enabled with "xsetroot -cursor_name right_ptr". However,
> some programs use their own mouse pointer, and it will change
> as soon as you point into such a window...

That's the same stupid idea as is behind programs insisting on doing
the job of the window manager by drawing their own decorations.

>> But when you use the trackball with your left hand, [...]
> That's entirely wrong. You don't use a trackball because it
> does not exist. Everyone uses a mouse (old people) or taps on
> the screen (young people). ;-)

Dunno, I've already been way ahead of those tiny tap-screens 35 years
ago when I used an old black-and-white TV as a display for my computer.
I could see everything on it, and I could even program the computer
which made it rather useful, and, imagine that, without being spied upon
and without being controlled by anyone else.  So I don't understand how
anyone can put up with the useless crap you have to tap on while you
can't see anything and achieve nothing.

>> [...] you suddenly notice
>> how wrong all the GUIs are designed.  The old X programs can have the
>> scroll bar on the left no problem, but all the new stuff is so great
>> because it's immature and you have to click the like buttons nonetheless
>> (even if you can't reach them because they're at odd locations).
> This is called "to explore". ;-)

Hallowed are the like buttons!  Who presses the greatest number of them
will be rewarded with the most friends of them all!

>> >> >> Is this a general problem
>> >> >> with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD?
>> >> >
>> >> > Not FreeBSD-specific. It's one of the typical problems of
>> >> > "constant change" when dealing with Mozilla software... :-/
>> >> 
>> >> Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client?
>> >
>> > Yes, Sylpheed is a lightweight and still very convenient and
>> > usable MUA. It supports IMAP (as well as SMTP and POP3, which
>> > is so obvious that I don't need to mention it).
>> Hm.  I'll try that out, thanks.  If that is in German, the users can
>> decide what causes them more confusion: the same program they're used to
>> in English but German or a new program they've never used, but in German.
> Sylpheed is in any language you want (English and German verified),
> depending on what $LC_* says.

I tried it yesterday, and it has come a long way.  I think the last time
I tried it, it was called slightly different with claws, and it crashed
all the time.  It starts like 10 times faster than Thunderbird and even
lets me use emacs.  Writing any email that is more than two sentences
with Thunderbird or seamonkey is always a pain because their built-in
editor sucks so badly and they force you to use it.

But I haven't figured out how to make it so that libreoffice instead of
gedit is the default program to open spreadsheets attached to
emails. Gedit somehow doesn't work for that by not showing up at all. It
could at least display the apparent garbage.  Now sylpheed has lost the
claws but gedit is too smart for me.

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