Fast personal printing _without_ CUPS
smithi at nimnet.asn.au
Mon Oct 31 10:53:31 UTC 2011
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 386, Issue 9, Message: 5
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 07:28:24 -0400 Jerry <jerry at seibercom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:27:03 -0500 (CDT)
> Robert Bonomi articulated:
> > Your insistance on trying to impose -your- standards on the world, and
> > denying them the 'freedom of choice' to make their own decisions on
> > the matter -- e.g. "anyone offering such products should be to some
> > degree held legally responsible to their worth" -- is a fascist
> > mind-set. You 'know better' than anybody else, what is 'right' _for_
> > them. <snort>
> > BTW, I'd _love_ to see Microsoft "held legally respnsible" for _their_
> > product shortcomings. They'd be out of business in a week at the
> > outside.
> Once again your argument is pathetic. Microsoft has been held legally
> responsible by laws written to curtail the robber barons (railroad &
> oil) of the 19 and early 20th century.) Of course the EC, or is that
> the USSREC, strongly backed (pushed) by Opera, a maker of a web browser
> so pathetic that in two years a new upstart, "Chrome" actually has a
> larger market share, led a fight to curtail Microsoft's market share.
Actually, it was to curtail modern-day robber barons destroying their
competition by the usual raft of monopolistic and anti-competitive
techniques, but let's roll on through your gloriously OTT troll ..
> This is Fascism at its best. A totally free and open market is the best
> way to insure the survival of the fittest. Of course socialists cannot
> survive in that environment and rush off to find ways of getting
> governments involved in protecting their turf.
Calling everyone who finds Microsoft's predatory behaviours 'socialist'
(let alone 'fascist') and wrongly reducing to absurdity Darwin's theory
to this primitive 'survival of the fittest' mantra is counterproductive
to your usual function of participating in this list to sow bulk FUD on
behalf of Microsoft. If I were Bill, you'd get no $points for this one.
> I have absolutely no problem with holding Microsoft legally responsible
> when they release a product with a bug or security flaw. However, this
> must be enforced across the board and against every entity that
> releases software irregardless of its price. It should probably even
> include "port maintainers" who release defective ports. Lets be honest,
> if that is even possible for a socialist like yourself, that if you
> want to go down that road then lets go -- all the way.
Microsoft would love that. They can pay fines out of the coffee and
biscuit jar without blinking, while non-behemoths would be bankrupt.
You would no doubt find this fair enough; survival of the fattest.
> Microsoft's very existence depends on its ability to create an
> operating system that allows users to fully use programming and devices
> that they choose to deploy. If they cannot achieve that goal then they
> die, or else have a market share equivalent to FreeBSD, virtually
> undetectable. Microsoft has done a fairly good job of that. FreeBSD,
> an the other non-windows operating systems, have not achieved that
> goal although a few forward thinking developers like those associated
> with Ubuntu have made huge strides in that direction.
You are mistaken if you think the raison d'etre of FreeBSD is, or ever
has been, or ever will be, to achieve Microsoft's goals of a system so
simple (albeit by obfuscation of complexity) that even a fool can use
it, aimed at a mass consumer market. You are wrong if you see FreeBSD,
or the other BSDs, or other unix-based or unix-inspired systems (apart
from Apple and a few more reactionary Linux advocates) as 'competing' in
the same 'market' as Microsoft.
> When it comes to
> technological advances, FreeBSD is at the bottom of the list. It is
> there primarily because of people who are simply willing to accept
> inferiority as the norm.
Microsoft's list, for sure. So transparent, Jerry.
> I know I piss people off by my style of
> writing. I am just not the sort of person, a socialist primarily, who
> bends over and takes it up the ass everyday rather than say "ENOUGH,
> lets fix this friggin mess." You cannot even get a decent "N - protocol"
> wireless device, or even a not so decent one for that matter, to work
> on FreeBSD while the rest of the world has had working solutions for 5
> years. What the hell are they waiting for -- the second coming of the
> invisible man in the sky? Friggin PATHETIC. However, our esteemed
> leadership has managed to bump the version numbers from at least 6 to
> the soon to be 9 and we still have no working solution for an easy
> method of securing and installing printer drivers, or any drivers for
> that matter. Having to modify obscure system files and settings to get
> a simple sound card to work is always a PLUS. Pathetically enough, there
> are users who do actually feel that way.
Apart from yourself, for obvious reasons, people who want a system that
works the One Microsoft Way and have zero interest in what's going on
under the hood just buy and use Windows. No skin off our noses at all,
no joy engaging in combat with such people, we're not 'in that market'.
You're forever telling us how good Windows is, and how everything 'just
works', so why on earth would you and your alter ego ever bother running
FreeBSD if you were not deriving some benefit from regularly trashing it
here, according to your 'billable time' and 'cost benefit' theories?
And clearly you've not been keeping up with the freebsd-wireless@ list.
> Microsoft sells it products for money -- in some cases a lot of
> money. FreeBSD and the open-source community as a whole (hole?) gives
> it away. Yet Microsoft controls over 90% of the home market. That
> alone proves my point. You cannot crate an inferior product and
> expect the general population to use it simply because you give it
You've overplayed your hand, successful FUD relies on some subtlety.
You'll have to at least pretend you don't hate free and open source
systems with so much passion, if you're to become effective at it.
> This discussion has gone on long enough and I am already bored by it.
You started it, again. I've been away, but was unsurprised to find
another invocation of this sort of discussion, and once again seeing
Polytropon calmly and dispassionately pulling misconceptions to pieces,
without having to disparage your overt or underlying belief systems, let
alone attack you on a personal level. I admit to having less patience.
> There are some posters like Poly who, while I am aware of his deeply
> rooted socialist concepts does actually raise some really useful ideas
> and actually to some degree attempts to qualify them. At the very
> least, he is willing to discuss them -- something extremely rare in
> this arena. Then there are posters like Chad who simply spews the
> company line -- Microsoft is bad, we are good, the corporations owe us,
> bla bla bla. You cannot hold an intelligent conversation with them
> because their mind is closed. I know that as would anyone who reads this
> forum with an open mind. Then Robert, there is you. A perfect example
> of a large majority of users here who would rather bend over every day
> and smile as it is rammed up your ass rather than scream, ENOUGH ALL
> READY -- LETS FIX THIS FRIGGIN MESS NOW!. You Robert are the reason
> that FreeBSD and to a large extent other non-windows OSs are trailing
> the pack. You have been brain washed to believe that inferiority is the
> norm and to accept it. Like a good little socialist you have fallen in
> line. The problem with that philosophy Robert is if you are not the lead
> dog, the view never changes.
Well, that's just classic, Jerry. The only 'friggin mess' is in your
head; you still don't have a clue what using an OS like FreeBSD is about
and for whom it is clearly a highly advanced OS. If you care about 'n'
wireless so much, grab one of the supported Atheros or other cards and
get on with helping in its development. There is just no 'esteemed
leadership' assigning tasks to teams of programmers, let alone having
absurd goals of 'beating Microsoft' in the consumer gadgetry market; by
and large, people work on what interests them or their employers.
Microsoft's paradigms simply do not apply; most people here know that
and get on with doing whatever it is they want to do with their systems.
They know that if they need help and ask their peers for some politely
and provide the needed information they will be richly rewarded, and
they aren't arsed about people bitching on behalf of those who'd like
BSD to go away or become subsumed in some stupid race to be 'top dog'.
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