Removal of item from archive

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-questions at freebsd.org
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions at freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Anthony
> Atkielski
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:58 PM
> To: freebsd-questions at freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Removal of item from archive
>
>
> Erik Trulsson writes:
>
> > We sure did.  We have gone through this several times over the last
> > couple of years. So far the answer has always been the same: No.
>
> You can submit DMCAs to any organization hosting archives and using any
> equipment based in the U.S. (including any kind of telecommunications
> link), and to their upstream providers as required.  You have to submit
> to U.S. jurisdiction as part of the process (no matter where you
> actually live).
>

The DMCA doesen't apply here unless the post she wants to have removed
was a copy protection circuvention device. (because the primary reason
for the DMCA was to define electronically posted software as a "device"
rather than as speech, thus taking it out of First Amendment
protections.)
Note of course that this hasn't yet been tried before the US Supreme
Court, so the DMCA isn't the be-all and end-all of this argument by
any means.

And yes I am aware of the free speech sky-is-falling people who seem
to think the DMCA applies to everything, this is false despite your
frothing at the mouth about it.

> You can also sue organizations directly for copyright infringement (or
> file complaints for criminal infringement, although that might be hard
> to apply in many jurisdictions).
>

That is how you would legally force the mailing list archive
(at http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/) to
remove the post.  The only problem of course is that you would have
a pretty weak case for several reasons, first you knew you were posting
to a publically archived mailing list when you made the post, so
you gave permission by your posting for it to be archived, second,
assuming it's been posted for some time, without complaint, it would
be difficult to prove that now you are suddenly suffering damages,
so therefore no grounds to sue.

And lastly, if SOMEONE ELSE makes a post to the list, and INCLUDES
part of your post, they are doing so under Fair Use, and you CANNOT
legally compel the archive owner to remove their post, because it
is copyright by them.  All you can do is sue them and if you win
you can force them to sue the archive owners to remove their post -
and if yet again a 3rd person included their post, then there is
yet another person in the chain of lawsuits.

So I think from a practical point of view suing anyone will go
nowhere also.

Beth, part of the problem here is that you have NEVER actually
listed the post or posts you want removed in the archive, for example:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2005-February/075296
.html

the above is a specific post.  (not yours, by the way)  Unless you
reference the posts you have a problem with like this, nobody is
going to go to the bother
of doing your work for you.  And if I was an archive owner I would
ignore the kinds of "fishing expedition" requests you are making
here - without listing the specific posts you could keep the
owner running back and forth forever deleting post after post.

Secondly, you are e-mailing the list itself, NOT the maintainers of
the list.  The list maintainers are

freebsd-questions-owner at freebsd.org

As is clearly spelled out on this webpage:

http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions

In my humble opinion, if you really want a specific post removed,
and you have a GOOD reason for it, a polite e-mail to the list
maintainer, listing the EXACT url of the post, would PROBABLY
work.  After all it's not like they would have to do a great
deal of work ONCE YOU SPECIFIED the post.

But continuing to mail this question to the actual list itself, as
you seem to keep doing, while it serves to provide endless hours of
amusement for the readers of the list, is pretty much a waste of
time.

This by the way is one of the fates of people like yourself who
fail to READ THE DIRECTIONS.  I'll bet you haven't bothered to
read the owners manual of your car, either, yet you probably
consider yourself a good driver.  Uh huh.

Ted