Items missing from the handbook and/or FAQs.

[Bill Moran]

Joe Rhett wrote:
> I separated these into two separate posts because they deal with different
> issues.
> 
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 01:22:31PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote:
> 
>>I can imagine that you're frustrated right now, but your response is
>>pretty much out of line.  If you don't like FreeBSD and the way things
>>are done, use something else.  If your employer is forcing you to use
>>something you can't stand, then seek out another job and pass the work
>>on to someone who'd appreciate it (me, for one).
>>
>>This has probably been said 10000 times, but:
>>FreeBSD is a free project.  If you don't like the way things are being
>>done, you're welcome to do them differently.  If you want someone to
>>do it for you, feel free to fork out some money ... I'm sure I'm not
>>the only consultant who likes working on FreeBSD, and likes it even
>>better when he's getting paid to do it.
> 
> Perhaps I am just confused, but to me "if you don't like the way things are
> done" means that I have to have made a decision about that.  I haven't yet
> made any decision of the sort.

Then I must be misunderstanding.  You posted your suggestions, you got some
replies, you then proceeded to complain about how this mailing list is run ...
to the exclusion of any previous information about the original suggestions
(notice that they've been snipped from the thread for a few posts now, and
it wasn't me that did it)

I call that complaining about how this mailing list is run.

> I have reported things I consider to be problems.  None of them involve
> "the way it is done" and they universally involve how "the way it is done"
> could be better documented.

Again ... misunderstanding.  I don't have any problem about the suggested
improvements.  I'm sick of seeing this thread rant about how nice people
aren't.

> Now, if a set of patches were proposed and I were to respond to that and
> say "I disagree with that approach", well then, maybe that's not liking how
> it is done.  But things haven't gone that far.

No.  They went it a completely different (and totally nonproductive) direction.

> So far the only thing that has happened is that I have followed the
> instructions for submitting a PR which explicitly state that it should be
> brought up on the mailing list first (section 3, Preparations) before
> creating a PR.

No.  The major thing that happened is that you apparently took offense
to a response (which I never saw) that was (in your words) sarcastic
and insulting, and haven't discussed the aformentioned changes since.

> I've done that, and I've been repeatedly attacked for having done so.

Again ... I haven't followed this thread closely, but the only attacks I
saw were you attacking the way the mailing list is run.

> There are a great many things about FreeBSD that I very explicitly like
> "the way it is done".  It's really only how people on the mailing list are
> willing to instantly switch to (1) insulting the person and (2) assuming
> that any reported fault is an attack against the entire process (like you
> did above) that I have a problem with.

I assumed no such thing.  I don't know where you got your ideas, but all
I've been trying to do is smooth out this thread so it can get back to
productive discussion.

That's why my last post suggested that you take a deep breath.  You're
apparently in a mindset where you perceive everything as a threat/attack.
You're not going to get anywhere as long as you're thinking that way, and
that has nothing to do with FreeBSD, it's just basic human relations.

Please take responsibility for returning this thread to something
productive.

-- 
Bill Moran
Potential Technologies
http://www.potentialtech.com