Chris H bsd-lists at
Mon Jan 12 17:25:27 UTC 2015

On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 07:55:45 -0900 Royce Williams <royce at> wrote

> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Chris H <bsd-lists at> wrote:
> > As to the "sysadmin gap" a look to
> > the ports tree seems to indicate quite a volume of "sysadmin"
> > related ports. Are some missing?
> To the contrary -- there are too many.
> A good project would be to survey which ones people actually use, and
> why -- and then bring their best features into base.
I agree something like thishas value. But obtaining access to the
usage matrix is the key.

> This would be difficult to do as a independent skunkworks project, and
> would be better suited as a high-level, Foundation-sponsored one.
see above.
> (For example, in the Debian ecosystem, for most people, there is no
> reason to use something other than apt-get, because it does what it
> should and does it well. Every time I upgrade a port, I have to study
> /usr/ports/UPDATING, read multiple mailing lists, and hold my breath.
> I cannot remember the last time I worried about running apt-get.
> Arguments about flexibility and diversity ecosystem don't hold up well
> when the basics fail on a regular basis.)
Here is where we will clash; I've been riding *BSD for over 20yrs.
It's *biggest* asset has been in it's flexibility -- it wasn't another
Linux "dist", that required me to essentially become a "clone" of
every other Linux install. The Ports system, and /src allowed one to
tailor my build/install to meet *my* needs. I wasn't required, in fact
I was *encouraged*, to have a unique system. Frankly the new pkg(8)
*requirement* was a complete 180 on this philosophy. It's implementation
was also flawed in many respects (which speaks to your point). I have no
objection to pkg(8), per se; But it *should* have been optional, it
*should* have been better (longer) tested, *before* pushed into the
ecosystem, and should *not* have been implemented with a backend with
single-point-of-failue (sqlite3(1). Honestly; why did pkg(8) have to
be *required*? Is FreeBSD simply hoping to become a new "distro"?
But, given it's there, and how it's there. You have/bring up some valid,
points; it *is* a bit of a game of roulette. I *too* get a knot in my
stomach even at the *thought* of an upgrade. Sure there are plenty of
choices in an upgrade path/implementation. But, as it sits now, I'm
not sure I can say it's gotten any easier, or "trouble free", as a
result of pkg(8).

> Royce
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