Limitations of Ports System

Remko Lodder remko at
Fri Dec 14 14:31:47 PST 2007

Aryeh M. Friedman wrote:
> Remko Lodder wrote:
>> David Southwell wrote:
>>> On Friday 14 December 2007 08:08:54 Paul Schmehl wrote:
>>>> --On Friday, December 14, 2007 12:19:06 +0000 RW
>>>> <fbsd06 at> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:34:58 -0500
>>>>> "Aryeh M. Friedman" <aryeh.friedman at> wrote:
>>>>>> Namely if I build abc with options 123 and 345 and def with
>>>>>> 345 and 678 then 345 will be cached for def since we
>>>>>> already set it for abc.
>>>>> How do you know the user wants 345 set on both ports?
>>>>> It might be a useful stable feature on "abc", but causes
>>>>> lock-ups on "def"
>>>> SInce I've already killfiled Aryeh, I can only infer what you
>>>> are responding to and respond to him.  But let me state this
>>>> emphatically in the hopes it will get through his thick skull.
>>> I do wish you could acquire the maturity to distinguish between
>>> the advantages that could come arguing your case clearly and
>>> collegially and the disadvantages that acrue from being
>>> personally antagonistic towards someone with whose analysis you
>>> happen to disagree.
>>> For me when someone becomes abusive they destroy their own
>>> credibility and get to sound as though they believe their
>>> opinions antitle them to be hateful and that their own views are
>>> somehow godgiven.
>>> IMHO Shouting make you less rather than more credible.
>>>> \Please repeat that one hundred times until it gets through.
>>> Endless repetition does not add strength to analysis!!
>>>> No port should *ever* make decisions on a users behalf.
>>>> Suggestions, yes (e.g. OPTIONS that are enabled by default.)
>>>> Decisions, no.  If you depend on another port *and* on certain
>>>> knobs in that dependency being enabled, then *tell* the user
>>>> that during your port's install and let them decide how to
>>>> handle it.  DO NOT enable those knobs yourself, no matter how
>>>> tempting it may be.
>>> IMHO You would sound more credible if you used the IMHO a bit
>>> more!! You might also gain some respect if you followed your own
>>> advice. Make suggestions for others to consider - do not decide,
>>> in advance, they are thick skulled if they do not agree with
>>> you!!
>>>> It is beyond impossible for anyone to know what every user who
>>>> is installing ports already has on their boxes or what they
>>>> might want to add or ***what you might break***.  Once you
>>>> begin making decisions for them, you could well stomp all over
>>>> something that was functioning perfectly normally and break a
>>>> critical box.
>>>> DON'T DO IT.  That is so Microsoftian it's not funny.
>>> IMHO Shouting, hectoring and lecturing does not add weight to
>>> anyones point of view.
>> These threads have gone far enough, please consider taking this off
>> the FreeBSD mailinglists and discuss this privately. The majority
>> does not like the current ideas and want to see something usefull
>> first. People like Aryeh and David are not really persons that one
>> would see as the persons generating the ports-infrastructure-ng
>> till they have code.
>> If you both keep pissing off people that have a fair share in the
>> ports collection already, please do it by other means, dont crowd
>> the mailinglists with it. Your ideas might be perfect in your world
>> but they aint in ours (till you have shown working code).
>> So please stfu till you have some code and be done with it <DOT>.
> Developing in a vacuum is a recipe for disaster.... we are making
> fairly good progress believe it or not I only see an other 1 or 2
> threads being needed before actual coding starts, *BUT* producing a
> system no one wants is pointless thus it is wise to gather as much
> input as possible...  why is it that everyone who sees the whole
> concept as being negative has offered no input what so ever about what
> should be done (even saying "the current system is fine" is useful to us)

simply because we have seen it failing a lot of times. Please take this
offlist,discuss this and generate a nice PoC, then get back to us, till
that time, DONT bother the ports list with it or any other list. You are
the single reason for a HIGH S/N ration on MOST lists I am subscribed to
that is a REALLY -BAD- thing.

You Simply dont understand the way it works here and I can understand
that till a certain point of view; take the advise; discuss it
elsewhere, and get back with working code (yeah I repeat it twice
because nobody seems to get through to you, and MANY people tried it
/"\   Best regards,                      | remko at
\ /   Remko Lodder                       | remko at EFnet
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