The Website

[John Von Essen]

Bam....

You just hit it with the Linux note. If I propose to use FreeBSD on our
production web pool, I'll get shot down.

However, I can easily convince management to convert to Linux!!! In their
minds linux is more mature and stable then this FreeBSD thing that they
never heard of.

Its sad but true... I dont think a new .com site will change everything,
but it would definitely help. As for volunteering, web design aint my
thing. But, it might help if the core team opened up the possibility of a
new .com site in a more formal manner. I mean, more then just saying, go
make a site, show it to us, and then we'll think about it.

-john

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, dereck wrote:

> John,
> 1. I agree with you that it is hard to get management to accept FreeBSD
> - perception is poor, though I'm not quite sure why.
>
> 2. I disagree that the website is to blame.  I think it could use work,
> but as far as OSS software goes, it is pretty solid.  (The search sucks,
> though :-) .)  However, if you can do an alternative one there will be
> ways to get the people to use it.  I for one encourage you to work on an
> alternative if you have time.
>
> 3. You management uses Solaris (!) - count your blessings.  It could be
> FAR FAR worse!!!  From my experience with [shall remain unnamed] *NIXES
> I'd rather deal with Solaris than any others apart from *BSD.  But if
> your management moves to Linux, get another job :-).
>
> best,
> dereck
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 10:26, John Von Essen wrote:
> > This is an interesting point. Alot of big companies use FreeBSD, but under
> > the following conditions:
> >
> > 1. The lead/senior sysadmins are old FreeBSD guru's
> > 2. The systems that have FreeBSD installed are low-profile and can't be
> > easily spotted (audited).
> > 3. Management has loose control over their employees
> >
> > I am working for a large insurance company right now. Because, I love
> > FreeBSD, I have made an attempt to "slip" FreeBSD into the network - on
> > some backend mail servers, intranet web servers, etc.,. However, I still
> > have no chance of getting FreeBSD into, say, our production web server
> > pool. Management is brain-washed and all they know is Solaris, Solaris,
> > Solaris, IBM, IBM, IBM.
> >
> > And... It doesn't help when they go to freebsd.org. It makes FreeBSD seem
> > NON-enterprise. Personally, i think the site is fine, but Im a tech, not
> > a CTO. Maybe, freebsd.com can be redesigned have a suse.com or redhat.com
> > look-n-feel, and freebsd.org can retain - the developer community
> > look-n-feel.
> >
> > -john
> >
> > On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> >
> > > Paul Robinson wrote:
> > >
> > > > [snip; poor formatting]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, this is the problem FreeBSD generally has. A lot of people would
> > > > actually like to see more developers move to FreeBSD and contribute to
> > > > the project. It then follows that as the "product" improves, we are able
> > > > to see a rise in the number of users. Pedantic, yes, but I'm becoming
> > > > less convinced of the need for us to get FreeBSD onto the family PC. I
> > > > would like to see it on a lot more developer's desks though.
> > >
> > > And in more companies. FreeBSD is already used by many (large) companies
> > > (including those in the Fortune 500). I know that even MS uses FreeBSD
> > > for the SFU software.
> > >
> > > > [snip; poor formatting]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Won't you expect the competition's product to be a better alternative to
> > > > the one you currently use? Do you honestly believe that OS choice is
> > > > dependent on what the website looks like? If so, how did Mandrake ever
> > > > take off?
> > >
> > > I have to agree here.
> > >
> > >
> > > > [snip; poor formatting]
> > > >>	the moment it looks like a three column url listing with no
> > > >>	really strong visual cues to things important to capturing,
> > > >>	converting, and supporting new users.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, you know what the answer is then, don't you? You can grab the
> > > > source, talk to the web team, produce a better version. Remember it has
> > > > to be readable in text browsers, conform to WAI and Internationalisation
> > > > standards and everyone has to agree by mutual consent it's a better
> > > > design than the existing one.
> > >
> > > AMEN. This is a bikeshed that gets discussed every 6 or so months.
> > > Search advocacy@, doc@ and any number of other mailing lists for the
> > > amount of complaints about the webpage. As per the  suggestion always
> > > posted that the FreeBSD page is too ``simple,'' my answer remains:
> > >
> > > http://www.google.com
> > > http://www.sun.com
> > >
> > > Simple, huh?
> > >
> > > As I stated on your other thread regarding the post on the ZDNet.au
> > > site; if you can't put up, shut up. I say that in a coarse manner not to
> > > be obtuse, but to discourage you and others from continuing with a
> > > bikeshed that nobody seems to care to fix. If you want to make a new
> > > site for FreeBSD, make a template, see what you can do, but don't expect
> > > it to be used.
> > >
> > > > [snip]
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Devon H. O'Dell
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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