cvs commit: src/games/fortune/datfiles fortunes fortunes2-o

Greg Byshenk gbyshenk at
Tue Aug 9 18:15:36 GMT 2005

On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 07:24:44PM +0200, Jens Schweikhardt wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 10:32:08AM +0100, Ceri Davies wrote:
> # On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 07:58:27PM +0000, Jens Schweikhardt wrote:
> # > schweikh    2005-08-08 19:58:27 UTC

> # >   FreeBSD src repository
> # > 
> # >   Modified files:
> # >     games/fortune/datfiles fortunes fortunes2-o 
> # >   Log:
> # >   Move the Hitler quotes and some references to him to the "offensive" file.

> # I object.  References to Hitler are not inherently offensive.
> I assume there's no disagrrement about Hitler quotes being offensive.
> In Germany they are to almost everyone. So it's good to move them
> to the offensive list. Note, they're moved, NOT removed.

I suspect that there is some disagreement even about Hitler quotes, but
I am not going to present a strong argument against moving them.

> Let me cite the three references I moved:
> 	[...] repeated the holy words, "Heil Hitler!"
> 			-- George Lincoln Rockwell
> 	%

> If you do this in Germany in public, you're breaking the law.
> Anyone calling the greeting "Holy words" is very likely to offend
> many people. I have no doubt about this quote's offensiveness.
> Moving it is 100% justified.

There plainly is some disagreement about this, as well.  But I can 
understand why quotes from Rockwell might be offensive to some people.
> 	Roumanian-Yiddish cooking has killed more Jews than Hitler.
> 			-- Zero Mostel
> Comparing Roumanian-Yiddish cooking to what Hitler has done is
> ridiculing his victims. Comparisons like this in Germany have put many a
> politician out of office for offending many Jews and Germans as well. I
> have no doubt about this quote's offensiveness. Moving it is 100%
> justified.

And I can understand why someone might find the Mostel quote offensive,
even though Mostel himself was Jewish, taught at the Hebrew Association
in NYC, performed at the benefit for the Emergency Committee to Save the
Jewish People of Europe (in 1944), and narrated "Children of the Exodus",
among other things, and thus it is safe to assume that he was _not_
"ridiculing" the victims of the Holocaust.

> 	Hitler used methods against white men in Europe, which by tacit
> 	agreement between the cultural European nations were only to be
> 	used against the coloured.
> 			-- Poul Henningsen [1894-1967]
> 	%

> This is clearly racist in my world. I have no doubt about this quote's
> offensiveness. Moving it is 100% justified.

On the other hand, as has been pointed out already, far from being "clearly
racist", this quote is in fact a condemnation of racism.

> # Hiding from history is the reason why school children in Britain know that
> # the second World War was fought against the Nazis, but have no idea where
> # they came from.
> I hide nothing from history. I moved offensive quotes to a different
> file, so the easily offended (which includes myself sometimes) have
> a chance to read fortunes without quotes from and refs to the monster.
> I have now backed up my motives and explained the details. This will
> be my only reply in this thread. Please let it die.

While some of the cases are at least arguable, in at least one case (the
Henningsen quote) your reasoning is simply _wrong_.

greg byshenk  -  gbyshenk at  -  Leiden, NL

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