filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]

jonathan michaels jlm at
Mon Jun 6 18:57:15 GMT 2005

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 10:25:51AM -0300, Maxi Combina wrote:

snipped for brevity

> combined with a stable system. I have no trouble with a "diffucult /
> unix-like" OS, but a lot of people do. And this a _fact_.They dont
> have time to spend learning to use a "dificult" OS. And I think that
> if we want to tell more and more people (friends, family, goverment,
> companies, etc) to move to an open source OS, we must do an effort. I

word of mouth advertising is teh best most reliable form of advertising
going ... good working examples performing well and in a stable manner
is the best way of showing pwople that an operating system is worth
concidering. especially if it is a college is using it (comfortably and
assuredly) to do the job at hand.

> think that there are a lot of linux distros out there that are really
> easy to use, and even more "friendly" or "beatiful" than windows.
> I dont think that FreeBSD has achieved this. I dont think there is
> need. FreeBSD is more suitable for a server station, but not for the
> desktop. I use linux both as server and desktop with excelent results.

servers can be managed by purpose built gui shells but they would needs
be a very complicated and very very deep multi-leveled, many menued
beast tehat would be an almost nightmare to navigate, eve if it were
designed "properly" !!!

user interfaces can be very well served by a text console or text
shell .. basically it depends on what you grew up with and it is this
dichotomy that is driving the current schism twix gui/non-gui users.
each side has valid arguemnts .. but the truth lies in between teh two
'extremes', or so it has been shown to me over these few decades that
i've watched this system develop, and so on.

> I am using FreeBSD since a few weeks ago, also with excelents resutls.
> But I see it is not desktop oriented (I repeat, this seems ok for me.
> FreeBSD is better for a server station, not for a desktop).

i've been using computers to solve problems and provide solutions since
os9 was a twinkle in its parents eyes (microware) and qnx was going
ultra reliable realtime unix(alike) operating systems and teh text
console was king .. then came novel os/2 and ms windows v3.11 each one
was really hard to adjust too and dificult to change from untill i came
to qwindows this was based upon an x11 distribution (forgot which one)
but it was quick clean comfortable to use and gave me direct access to
teh cli (command line interface) if it was needed and it was an easy
and simple switch. all of teh current crop of gui's are not !

what i'm trying to say is tha these days in an effort to become "easy
to use" the gui interface which sits on top off and between teh user
and the operating system propper has become a very complicated and
indeed very bloated and in some cases almost uslessly crippling "user

perhaps, we (at freebsd) should settle upon a clean easyish simple and
lightweight GUI that we accpet as the official freebsd gui and set up a
dev team to set it up as the gui that freebsd uses to provide teh 'ease
of use' most new users are looking for when they move from another
gui'fied platform be it microsoft window, mac, or some other custom
platform. thier whole task would be to work on integrating the freebsd
gui into/with the freebsd oprating system but keeping it seperate so
that it would be like a jacket one could put on when the weather turns
bad or one goes from one environment to another .. to use another
analogy. when one becomes aclimatised to teh new environment then to
get better performance, easier usage and so forth then you could then take
off the jecket (take out the gui environment) and use the "raw" or the
cli shell that is the basic way most all operating systems have by way
of teh users interoperating with the core of the "operating system".    

> I dont think that there is an OS that is the best for all the
> purposes. Use windows if you want to play the latest games. Use *BSD
> if you want or need a really good unix. Use linux if ...... ( fill in
> the blanks ;) )

> Please let me know if you dont agree, and why.

i disagree .. not so much with wghat you have said, maxi, rather with
the usage paterns that we have all sortof assumed are teh way things
were, work etc, etc, at teh end of teh line all operating systems are
really identicle, why ? because an operating system is the controls
built into the cpu systems command protocol structure that feeds
information to, retrieves information from, queue work streams for the
cpu to process, move around its varions media channels. now that
"shell" that we users see, use and or interface with this raw and basic
level protocol system/language.

now this interface level can be a direct 'text console' cli as in most
unix like shells or the ever more popular graphical user interface -
gui. over time the developers of these interface tools start to add
stuff that makes teh job 'easier' to use untill the point that the
whole system become so overgrown that one need special ADDITIONAL keys
to help make use of teh added system short cuts that are built into teh
system to make it easier to use and so teh developement circle
continuse --- all with teh (in my opinion) misguided notion of making
the operating systems control mechanisms more and more complicated to

what i am advocating (have done so for year i think) is that we
(freebsd, et al) have a basic and simple graphocal user interface that
is devoid of all teh 'tidbits' that are "work-savers" so called.

perhaps i am agreeing with you in teh end .... sorta, grin. 

warm regards


ps, perhaps we could start a mailing list (maybe freebsd-gui) to
discuss these issues and to hammer out a longterm viable solution as it
is becoming a more important question, seeking an answer as time
progresses and all the 'popular' culture starts to believe that easy to
use equates with graphical interface and any "operating system" that
does not conform will be "doa" if it does not have a gui 'out of the
box' to basically ease teh fears of teh end user ... it is really a
babies teething ring that serves no other purpose .. again this last
bit is my opinion not every one might see it as harshly or humouringly.

with thanks.

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