freebsd eclipse plugins & mailing list

[Panagiotis Astithas]

Vizion wrote:
> On Thursday 25 August 2005 18:41,  the author David Wolfskill contributed to 
> the dialogue on-
>  Re: freebsd eclipse plugins & mailing list: 
> 
> 
>>[Sorry about cluttering a technical list with administrivia, but it
>>seemed appropriate under the current circumstances.  -- postmaster]
>>
>>On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 04:00:10PM -0700, Vizion wrote:
>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Personally I would be in favor of also creating a
>>>>>freebsd-eclipse at freebsd.org mailing list but I am not certain how much
>>>>>interest there might be. If there is enough support I would be willing
>>>>>to help set it up.
>>>>
>>>>You may be willing to help set it up, but only the FreeBSD postmaster(s)
>>>>can actually do so :).  I personally don't see enough interest for a
>>>>separate mailing list,
>>>
>>>How can we find if there is enough interest without creating the list?
>>>Eclipse is now a very serious EDI which is suitable for all kinds of
>>>development. Frankly I am dissappointed that freebsd has not been more
>>>active in the eclipse field.  The lack of plugin support in the ports tree
>>>is a major deterent.
>>
>>Regardless of the structure of the ports tree or anything else, my basic
>>criterion for new list creation is this:  Would creation of the new list
>>help the FreeBSD project more than retaining the status quo would?
> 
> 
> Well I think definitely yes. If you need any proof of its significance for 
> developers of any project I would suggest you take a look at the eclipse site 
> www.eclipse.org and at the links from that site. As to helping the freebsd 
> project a search through the eclipse website on Linux will tell you how much 
> support that community has gained through their involvement of a core of 
> linux deveopers in the eclipse community.
> 
> 
>>If the answer is yes, then I am strongly in favor of cretaing it -- to
>>the point that unless someone in core@ or admin@ tells me not to, I
>>will create the list.
> 
> 
> So please will you create the list as quickly as possible and hopefully we can 
> promulgate its presence on the many eclipse forums.
> 
>>However, I have been so far "out of the loop" with respect to
>>"development environments" and the like ... well, no; that's not right:
>>I was never "in the loop."  What "development" I do (generally in Perl)
>>is done in multiple xterm windows editing files with vi.
> 
> 
> You might find the eclipse edi in conjunction with the perl and php plugins 
> very very usefuland a tremendous advance on using multiple xterms with vi. 
> The one EDI will control all the development tasks and maintain a development 
> history... very neat.
> 
>>So:  for folks who have an opinion -- persuade me.  No, this isn't a
>>"vote;" I don't care about that.  Write to me about what the presence of
>>the new list will do for the FreeBSD project ... for good or for ill.
>>Be honest about it. 
> 
> 
> Eclipse is multi- faceted -- but is developed on a Java platform. However it 
> is out of place in the Freebsd-java mailing list... every plugin needs to be 
> discussed in the context of eclipse as a whole and the various plugins. The 
> absense of a list means that Freebsd users are not able to benefit from the 
> mutually support it can create to ensure freebsd developers are able to use 
> the latest tools -- whether you develop in C of C++, or java, xul, sml, http 
> php, or whatever there is an e clipse tool to help.
> 
> 
>>Note that I set Reply-To on purpose -- there's no 
>>need to clutter FreeBSD.org technical mailing lists with opinions about
>>the creation of a mailing list.
> 
> 
> I have posted this to the freebsd java list but will ask anyone who joins in 
> to delete that from the cc list and add their name to the cc list
> 
>>Chances are, I'll create the list -- 
> 
> 
> please do
> 
>>I recently created one dedicated to 
>>the Proliant line of hardware (of all things).  So if you can convince
>>me that Eclipse has a following at least comparable to Proliant
>>hardware, you're probably golden.  Remember, the salient criterion is
>>"Overall, does creation of the new list help the FreeBSD project?"
>>
>>
>>>I know a number of developers who have moved from freebsd to linux just
>>>because freebsd has not kept up with this very powerful EDI.
>>>Who should I email to request a new list? ( I have cc'd
>>>postmaster at freebsd.org )
>>
>>I noticed.  :-}
>>
>>
>>>If there is no hope then I suppose I could start an independent mail list
>>>- but that  idea goes against the grain!
>>
>>Right.  I appreciate your restraint.
>>
>>
>>>....
>>>
>>>--
>>>40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters.
>>>English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V
>>>Taurus. Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama
>>>Canal after completing engineroom refit.
>>
>>Heh.  Sorry about the need for the refit, but I've tended to have a bit
>>of a "soft spot" for ketches.  Not that I've actually sailed one,
>>unfortunately.
> 
> 
> Ah well if you are near San Diego in a couple of months (when the engine is 
> done, I'll be glad to welcome you aboard
> 
> David


I understand and sympathize with what you are trying to achieve, but I 
believe you are barking on the wrong tree here. Eclipse on FreeBSD has 
been in a rather good shape for at least the last two years that I have 
been using it:

- The IDE port gets updated a few days or weeks after the official release.
- The various milestone releases from the development version are 
usually ported as well.
- Many different plugins exist in the ports tree for Eclipse.

I also believe that people do get help when posting to freebsd-java 
about eclipse and I'll make sure the same thing happens on 
freebsd-ports. There are some things that could be improved however, like:

- Faster response to open PRs.
- More people working on porting the platform or the plugins.
- Official support from the eclipse.org site.

The first two are not going to be improved by a new mailing list, since 
a mailing list by itself does not spark new interest on a topic. I'm 
afraid that they may be harmed instead, since there might not be many 
(or any at all) subscribers to that list that are also ports committers. 
The way things usually work in FreeBSD-land for contributors without a 
commit bit, is that you submit an improvement, try to get the attention 
of a committer and then work with him through any details. The committer 
attention is not something you get very easily, especially if you 
consider how many lists these people are usually subscribed to.

Don't get me wrong, I will subscribe if such a list is created, but I 
fail to see the need for it. Check out the archives of freebsd-apache, 
freebsd-rc, freebsd-python and freebsd-perl for examples on the nature 
and the amount of postings I expect we will get. Do we need a new list 
for such an amount of e-mails?


Regards,

Panagiotis