svn commit: r228143 - in head: . share/mk tools/build/options

[Steve Kargl]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:50:42AM -0800, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 12/20/2011 9:59 PM, Steve Kargl wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 09:30:10PM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote:
> >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Steve Kargl
> >> <sgk at troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 06:45:07PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote:
> >>>> On 12/20/2011 18:29, Ben Kaduk wrote:
> >>>>> 2011/12/20 Doug Barton <dougb at freebsd.org>:
> >>>>>> On 12/20/2011 06:08, John Baldwin wrote:
> >>>>>>> The defaults for src.conf should be for the common case
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Agreed. The problem we seem to be missing here is that developers are
> >>>>>> not even statistically significant in measuring "the common case."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The common case" of what, though? ?"People using src.conf", or
> >>>>> "people rebuilding world", or just "people using FreeBSD"?
> >>>>
> >>>> The latter of course. The overwhelming majority of FreeBSD users will
> >>>> never use profiled libs, and in fact don't even know what they are. It's
> >>>> just useless space being taken up on every install. The defaults should
> >>>> be sensible for our users.
> >>>
> >>> OK, Doug, we get it! You don't like profiled libraries.
> >>> You don't use them, and by extension the 'common user'
> >>> does not use them.
> 
> It's not about me. :)  (And by extension, it's not about you either.)
> 
>i> Thi point that I was trying to drive home (that I think Doug is as well) is:
> >> - How many FreeBSD users are developers/performance/test engineers who
> >> care about this stuff being compiled into the base system?
> > 
> > Don't know.  I haven't seen a statistically meaningful poll of
> > the FreeBSD user base on which to draw an answer.  I suspect that
> > neither you nor Doug have seen such a poll.  
> 
> Oh please. It doesn't take a poll to know that the overwhelming majority
> of FreeBSD installs are servers or end-user systems.

Well, let's take it to a logical conclusion.  What other knobs should
default to off?  WITHOUT_TOOLCHAIN may be appropriate for the segment
of the user base who simply want a server.  Clearly, end-users, who do
not need profiled libraries, do not do software development so this knob
seems appropriate.  Well, if these end-users aren't doing software
development, we might as well set WITHOUT_MAKE.  My experience with
'common users' and reading through freebsd-questions suggests that
manpages are useless, so please set WITHOUT_MAN.  And since we aren't
building manpages, we might as well set WITHOUT_GROFF.  There, the
system is neutered for the convenience of our end-users. 

> > Neither the time to build profiled libraries nor the diskspace
> > used is significant. 
> 
> Great, so why is it such a problem for you to build them?
> 

It is not a problem because the libraries are built by default. :-)

Of course, there is the converse.  Why is it a problem for you
to turn off building profiled libaries?

-- 
Steve