svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make

Sam Leffler sam at
Fri Jan 30 09:49:25 PST 2009

David O'Brien wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote:
>> In message: <20090130015518.GA20404 at hades.panopticon>
>>             Dmitry Marakasov <amdmi3 at> writes:
>> : * David E. O'Brien (obrien at wrote:
>> : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages:
>> : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA.
>> : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to
>> : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example,
>> :   generated by cmake:
> ..
>> : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this
>> : out, as this will really annoy many people.
>> This makes at least two requests...  I hate them too.  really really
>> really hate them.  -Q is default in all my trees.
>> The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names
>> that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build
>> experience.  Also, it isn't clear how to use them.
>> O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without
>> discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion.  The
>> project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this
>> sort of thing is anti-social.
> s/1994/14-Nov-1998/
> 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that
> displeases some set of folks.  That's nothing new, but I'm restoring
> compatibility and functionailty, not removing it.
> I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with
> it.  I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so
> much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output.
> [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?]
> I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s'
> would give?

The point of his message is this is a community-based project and as 
such consensus is important.  I have seen zero support for your change, 
only complaints.  Change is change; you can't hide behind a claim you're 
restoring 10-year old behaviour.


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