challenge: end of life for 6.2 is premature with buggy 6.3

[Paul Schmehl]

--On June 7, 2008 2:41:32 PM +0800 Adrian Chadd <adrian at freebsd.org> wrote:

> 2008/6/7 Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com>:
>
>> Not only is this wrong, but it completely misses the point.  Why should
>> Jo have to upgrade to find out if his servers will fail under the
>> conditions already articulated in existing, unresolved PRs that affect
>> hardware that he is presently using?  That's a bit like saying, "Buy
>> this new car.  Sure it has bugs that could easily directly affect you,
>> but what's the chance you'll encounter them?  in the off chance that
>> they do, then you can help us resolve them."
>
> The software is Free. The car was Bought (or suggested to be bought.)
>
> Re-visit the analogy with a free car that a friend wants to give you.
> (Car analogies suck.)
>

Yes, they do.  It was the best I could come up with on the spur of the 
moment.

>
>> Trust me.  From a server admin's perspective, a bug affects you if it
>> exists in hardware you use.  Whether or not you're actually using the
>> OS is completely irrelevant.  Upgrading to the OS would be foolhardy.
>> Even testing it on a handful of boxes will not prove that it won't fail
>> under load in production.  Anyone who has done testing knows it can
>> only simulate, not duplicate, the conditions under which production
>> servers run.  I personally have experienced catastrophic failures after
>> extensive testing that revealed no problems.
>
> You're using free software. This translates to "lots of people have
> put in a lot of effort to provide something to the community which
> they can use, at no cost, if it suits them."
>

Of course.  What it *shouldn't* translate to is STFU and eat our dog food 
or go somewhere else.

>>
>> I've lectured enough.  If anyone doesn't get the point by now further
>> explanation isn't going to help.
>
> I still don't think you get it. FreeBSD is a community. A community
> works when enough people contribute positively towards furthering the
> goals of the project. Jo is a user. He sounds like he is using it in
> some reasonably critical and money-earning roles. Jo can participate
> by testing stuff on test hardware, reporting back issues and working
> with the community. Bitching about there being no long-term support
> for releases isn't constructive. Some developer comments may not be
> constructive either, but this is a -community project-. Join the
> -community- and help out.
>

Here's a hint for you.  Jo already contributes.  So do I.  Furthermore, 
both of us deeply appreciate the work that the developers do to produce 
FreeBSD and have stated so repeatedly.

> It doesn't matter if running a long-term support project would be
> beneficial for a certain subset of the userbase, its a losing
> situation to cater to them unless they somehow contribute back to the
> community.
>

This is precisely the attitude that I am objecting to.  Translated for the 
average user it states, "If you're using and not contributing, then shut 
up.  You haven't earned the right to complain."

Open source projects are not free.  They cost the developers in time and 
effort.  They also cost the users in dealing with untested bugs, dealing 
with making many disparate pieces of software work together rather than 
using a fully integrated commercial package.

Open source projects also have benefits.  Developers get the benefit of a 
huge plus on their resumes.  This translates directly into increased 
income for some of them and could for all of them.  They also benefit from 
intangibles such as the pride of a job well done, the respect of their 
peers and the admiration of their users.  Users get benefits as well. 
They get to use a system that works better than many commercial products 
and has a great deal more flexibility.

But don't think for one minute that open source is free for users and only 
costs developers.

Neither "side" deserves to be insulted and talked down to.

Maybe some developers need to quit.  If the work is so difficult and 
stressful that they can't behave in a professional manner, perhaps it's an 
indication that they've overextended themselves and need to take a step 
back.  There are few that have displayed an attitude that clearly states 
that they think they are doing all the contributing and users are doing 
nothing.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

Paul Schmehl
If it isn't already obvious,
my opinions are my own and not
those of my employer.