Call to delay EOL of 11.x -> Re: OS to replace FreeBSD

Jerry jerry at
Sat Mar 20 13:33:23 UTC 2021

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:45:13 +0100, Mohammad Noureldin stated:
>Hi Jerry,
>On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 13:38 Jerry <jerry at> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:30:15 +0100, Mohammad Noureldin stated:  
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 10:00 @lbutlr <kremels at> wrote:
>> >  
>> >> On 19 Mar 2021, at 10:10, freebsd at wrote:  
>> >> > To anyone who has read the bug report, this is clearly a
>> >> > serious  
>> >> regression issue on certain USB (probably 3) host controller
>> >> hardware.
>> >>
>> >> I've read the bug report and all the replies and it is clearly a
>> >> flaw in the controller. It is providing an invalid ID.
>> >>  
>> >
>> >If that's the case, I am curious how other Unix-Like Operating
>> >Systems manage to work on the same HW ?  
>> There are a number of possibilities.
>> 1) They have better programmers that can handle abnormalities.
>> 2) They realize that there are always going to be flaws in software
>> and hardware and are smart enough to work around it.
>> This is of course assuming that the actual problem is a defective
>> controller that every other OS can handle correctly. If, and this is
>> assuming that is correct, then why doesn't FreeBSD just code what the
>> defective controller is allegedly sending and accept it?
>> The simple fact the the code worked in versions prior to 12.x makes
>> this excuse that the controlled is defective highly suspect.
>Hi Jerry,
>I do understand your frustrations, but if you allow me, it is not a
>reason to attack the FreeBSD community and it's developers. Let's
>please focus on facts and possible solutions.
>As stated in this thread (and another one), did you have time to try
>any of the proposed tests ?
>Looking forward to your reply

I CANNOT install it, so I am unsure of how to build a custom kernel.
Then, assuming I could build a custom kernel, I would not be able to
use the "freebsd update" utility.  So, to put it in the vernacular,
"I am fucked if I do, and fucked if I don't". Not a great choice of
options. I am investigating it though. I got some help from a friend on
the Microsoft forum who told me he was almost positive I could install
Windows 10 PRO, then Hyper V and run FreeBSD 12.x or 13.x from there.
He is polling other users to see if they have had success with the same
equipment I process. The one very apparent advantage is that I would be
able to take advantage of Intel's Optane Memory and Storage. As far as
I can tell, FreeBSD does not support that architecture.

In computing, the robustness principle is a design guideline for software:

Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from
others (often reworded as "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal
in what you accept"). The principle is also known as Postel's law,
after Jon Postel, who wrote in an early specification of TCP:

TCP implementations should follow a general principle of robustness: be
conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others.
In other words, programs that send messages to other machines (or to
other programs on the same machine) should conform completely to the
specifications, but programs that receive messages should accept
non-conformant input as long as the meaning is clear.

Among programmers, to produce compatible functions, the principle is
also known in the form be contravariant in the input type and covariant
in the output type.

While this is not a TCP issue directly, the same general principal is
still relevant.


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