Minimal skills

Aryeh Friedman aryeh.friedman at gmail.com
Mon Jun 8 00:53:19 UTC 2020


On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 8:26 PM Valeri Galtsev <galtsev at kicp.uchicago.edu>
wrote:

>
>
> > On Jun 7, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 2:48 PM Donald Wilde <dwilde1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/7/20, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM Valeri Galtsev <
> galtsev at kicp.uchicago.edu
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jun 6, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman at gmail.com
> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 5:06 AM Vincent DEFERT <20.100 at defert.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> My advice: NEVER, ever, learn Java, for if you do, you'll never want
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> use another language and that could be a handicap in a new
> >> developer's
> >>>>>> career.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I switched 10 years ago to Java after 15 years of C/C++ (and an odd
> >>>>> assortment of other languages) and certainly agree with the idea of
> >> not
> >>>>> wanting to use another language.     Think of Java as the family SUV,
> >>>>> not
> >>>>> particularly fast and nimble when you need high performance or very
> >> low
> >>>>> level work but what is it good for nothing is better (rock solid code
> >>>> that
> >>>>> doesn't require the above).   That being said you should learn it but
> >>>> learn
> >>>>> it with other languages.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> To the OP:
> >>>>
> >>>> As someone already said in this thread: Java is proprietary, and
> Oracle
> >>>> who bought out Sun Microsystems (the creator of Java) started charging
> >>>> money end users of applications written in Java.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Where on Earth did you get the idea that Oracle charges/gets royalties
> >> for
> >>> 3rd application in Java!?!?!??!?!? I have *NEVER* paid a dime for any
> >>> application and/or anything else written in Java (nor is there any
> >> language
> >>> in the legal material that comes with the language and/or any of the
> >> tools
> >>> that would even allow for a royalty)... the language spec is completely
> >>> open and anyone can write a compiler or a JVM (all the specs are
> >> completely
> >>> available)..... IBM has made one so have a few other people including
> >> GNU.
> >>>
> >> You can use java 8 for your own purposes but Oracle's license
> >> agreement on their website clearly states that only up until Java 7 is
> >> it truly free. :-( This change occurred several years ago now.
> >>
> >> I don't have time to get the citation to support Valeri's assertion,
> >> but it is true.
> >>
> >
> > Then Wikipedia MUST be wrong?  A direct quote from there article on
> OpenJDK
> > (1st paragraph): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK
> >
> > "OpenJDK (Open Java Development Kit) is a free and open-source
> > implementation of the Java Platform, Standard Edition (Java SE).[1] It is
> > the result of an effort Sun Microsystems began in 2006. The
> implementation
> > is licensed under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) version 2
> with a
> > linking exception. Were it not for the GPL linking exception, components
> > that linked to the Java class library would be subject to the terms of
> the
> > GPL license. OpenJDK is the official reference implementation of Java SE
> > since version 7.[2][3][4]"
> >
> > And from the the OpenJDK web site itself:
> >
> > "Will Oracle change the OpenJDK licensing model?
> >
> > No. The OpenJDK Community continues to thrive with contributions from
> > Oracle, as well as other companies, researchers, and individuals, and the
> > GPL-based licensing model is one large part of this success. Oracle has
> no
> > plans to change it."  https://openjdk.java.net/faq/
> >
> > As to the language spec license and jvm spec license:
> >
> > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se14/html/spec-license.html
> > (Apache derived license due to needing the patent infringement clause).
> > [There are no patents that pertain to Java per se]
> >
>
> This is just general thought not addressed to anyone in particular.
>
> For the moment it indeed is true that openjdk is free. While Sun
> Microsystems was behind Java I was quite certain there will be no changes
> neither for end user use of Java, not for openjdk. Sun Microsystem did have
> that reputation (at least, in my book). Oracle has different reputation
> (again, in my book). And charging end users of java applications was not a
> surprise for me. I am not saying openjdk will have the same faith, but if
> that happens, it will not come as a surprise for me.
>

So by your logic someone should not learn C/C++ because there are
commercial applications written in them like Windows and MS Office!?!?


> Now, it is everybody’s own judgement people should rely on in estimate of
> how useful their skills in programming in Java may be in some future to
> come. They still may be valuable even if you shift your field out of open
> source domain, so do your own thinking.
>

According to IEEE's annual survey of what languages are used the most (all
domains/combined totals) [
https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/the-top-programming-languages-2019}
Java is #2 and has been #1 or #2 for more than 10 years.   It beats out
everything but Python.  Also a very quick look at ports shows 121 ports in
the Java category (there are Java based ports not even listed in there like
www/tomcat [from apache.org]) so it is most certainly used on open-source
projects!

Before saying something you might want to take your own advice and do your
own thinking based on facts instead of unfounded gut reactions.


>
> Just my 2 cents, as always.
>
> Valeri
>
> >
> > --
> > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org
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-- 
Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org


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