Minimal skills

Valeri Galtsev galtsev at
Mon Jun 8 00:26:20 UTC 2020

> On Jun 7, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman at> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 2:48 PM Donald Wilde <dwilde1 at> wrote:
>> On 6/7/20, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman at> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM Valeri Galtsev <galtsev at
>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 6, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman at>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 5:06 AM Vincent DEFERT <20.100 at>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> My advice: NEVER, ever, learn Java, for if you do, you'll never want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> use another language and that could be a handicap in a new
>> developer's
>>>>>> career.
>>>>> I switched 10 years ago to Java after 15 years of C/C++ (and an odd
>>>>> assortment of other languages) and certainly agree with the idea of
>> not
>>>>> wanting to use another language.     Think of Java as the family SUV,
>>>>> not
>>>>> particularly fast and nimble when you need high performance or very
>> low
>>>>> level work but what is it good for nothing is better (rock solid code
>>>> that
>>>>> doesn't require the above).   That being said you should learn it but
>>>> learn
>>>>> it with other languages.
>>>> To the OP:
>>>> As someone already said in this thread: Java is proprietary, and Oracle
>>>> who bought out Sun Microsystems (the creator of Java) started charging
>>>> money end users of applications written in Java.
>>> Where on Earth did you get the idea that Oracle charges/gets royalties
>> for
>>> 3rd application in Java!?!?!??!?!? I have *NEVER* paid a dime for any
>>> application and/or anything else written in Java (nor is there any
>> language
>>> in the legal material that comes with the language and/or any of the
>> tools
>>> that would even allow for a royalty)... the language spec is completely
>>> open and anyone can write a compiler or a JVM (all the specs are
>> completely
>>> available)..... IBM has made one so have a few other people including
>> GNU.
>> You can use java 8 for your own purposes but Oracle's license
>> agreement on their website clearly states that only up until Java 7 is
>> it truly free. :-( This change occurred several years ago now.
>> I don't have time to get the citation to support Valeri's assertion,
>> but it is true.
> Then Wikipedia MUST be wrong?  A direct quote from there article on OpenJDK
> (1st paragraph):
> "OpenJDK (Open Java Development Kit) is a free and open-source
> implementation of the Java Platform, Standard Edition (Java SE).[1] It is
> the result of an effort Sun Microsystems began in 2006. The implementation
> is licensed under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) version 2 with a
> linking exception. Were it not for the GPL linking exception, components
> that linked to the Java class library would be subject to the terms of the
> GPL license. OpenJDK is the official reference implementation of Java SE
> since version 7.[2][3][4]"
> And from the the OpenJDK web site itself:
> "Will Oracle change the OpenJDK licensing model?
> No. The OpenJDK Community continues to thrive with contributions from
> Oracle, as well as other companies, researchers, and individuals, and the
> GPL-based licensing model is one large part of this success. Oracle has no
> plans to change it."
> As to the language spec license and jvm spec license:
> (Apache derived license due to needing the patent infringement clause).
> [There are no patents that pertain to Java per se]

This is just general thought not addressed to anyone in particular.

For the moment it indeed is true that openjdk is free. While Sun Microsystems was behind Java I was quite certain there will be no changes neither for end user use of Java, not for openjdk. Sun Microsystem did have that reputation (at least, in my book). Oracle has different reputation (again, in my book). And charging end users of java applications was not a surprise for me. I am not saying openjdk will have the same faith, but if that happens, it will not come as a surprise for me.

Now, it is everybody’s own judgement people should rely on in estimate of how useful their skills in programming in Java may be in some future to come. They still may be valuable even if you shift your field out of open source domain, so do your own thinking.

Just my 2 cents, as always.


> -- 
> Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer,
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