thunderbird in German?

hw hw at
Sun Aug 4 00:14:02 UTC 2019

Polytropon <freebsd at> writes:

> On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:44:15 +0200, hw wrote:
>> Polytropon <freebsd at> writes:
>> > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:12 +0200, hw wrote:
>> >> Polytropon <freebsd at> writes:
>> > [...]
>> >> Changing Firefox wasn't a problem, other than that I wish I could do
>> >> that site-wide for all users rather than having to do it for each user.
>> >> Why don't these programs just honor the language settings of the
>> >> environment?
>> >
>> > Yes, that is really a problem, because so many other programs do
>> > it the right way; even temporary invocation in a different language
>> > is not a problem for "old" programs. For example, if you set a
>> > system-wide variable that applies to all users, that language
>> > variable should be honored. I see multi-language support as a
>> > great feature especially in FreeBSD, where I can use programs
>> > in the language I prefer, and that might be vary among the
>> > programs running in one session (for example, Sylpheed uses the
>> > english language, while LibreOffice uses the german one).
>> Libreoffice seems to be bad as well because you have to go into the
>> settings and change it before you get the language you have already set.
> I don't remember that I did something like that. Maybe because
> I installed "de-libreoffice" explicitely?

I had to do it on a Fedora installation.  I thought the de-Package
wasn't installed, but it was, and I had to change the preferences.

>> I usually don't notice whether it's English or German, but the users
>> will freak out as if it would make a difference (which it doesn't
>> because they don't know what they're doing anyway).
> Same here. I prefer the english interface language because the
> german translation often is incomplete (english menu items among
> german ones) or wrong or missing (especially regarding error
> messages).


I think part of the problem is that Germany has almost entirely missed
out on this technology, hence there is neither any frame of mind that
could lead to good translations, nor are there words available that
would be required.  If there was a suitable frame of mind, there would
probably be words, though it might be difficult to find a frame of mind
without the suitable words.

It took years before I finally figured out that "allgemeine
Schutzverletzung" is supposed to mean "segmentation fault".  I wouldn't
even call that a translation; it only shows that whoever came up with it
had no clue what they were translating.  Segmentation fault makes
perfect sense in English and none whatsoever in German because there is
no frame of mind with which anyone could understand what it means.  I'd
call it "Arbeitsspeicherbereichstrennungsüberschreitung", and noone
would understand that, either.

> The only programs I really _want_ to be in German are LibreOffice and
> Firefox (for reference).

So are they any different or is it just to see how bad the translation

>> This kinda reminds me of Gnome with which it is impossible to even add a
>> program starter.
> Oh, don't get me started with my hate-journey across Gnome. While
> Gnome first was superior to KDE language-wise, it later became
> more and more complicated: Not reading .xinitrc or .xsession, so
> forcing you to manually add "autostart programs", and mount/umount
> (and eject for optical units) didn't work at all, even though I
> followed the existing documentation, but finally I had to hack
> the umount binary (!)... And GDM's inability to launch anything
> than a Gnome session, and then came Gnome 3 which was so unusable
> that I switched the systems that ran Gnome for many years to Mate.
> That's the end of my personal Gnome story. :-)

I could never bring myself to actually use it.  I seriously wanted to
try not long ago and had to give up when I found that I can't configure
some windows to have no decorations and others to be sticky and on top.
Even the most simple stuff is impossible with Gnome.

>> It's already entirely useless because it doesn't even
>> have a usable window manager, but who would expect that you can't do
>> something basic like adding a start button or a menu entry.  I had to
>> switch a machine ever to KDE because of that.
> Would you say KDE is usable again for "german novice users"?
> I haven't tried KDE for some time because of bloat...

I know someone who's using it after I switched to KDE from Gnome because
he needed a couple program starters.  So far, he seems to be ok with it.

I haven't tried KDE in a very long time.  I used it for a while and gave
up because of too many bugs.  I've never had any use for these so-called
"desktop environments", and I don't understand what the point of those
is.  They seem to try to force you to do stuff in some more or less
weird way someone apparently figured should be the way to do things ---
but it isn't, and they're just getting in the way.  That's probably how
you can not add program starters to Gnome: Someone must have figured
that you must not start programs of your choosing with the required
parameters, hence you can't.  Perhaps the next version doesn't have a
terminal because nobody needs one and it's way too complicated anyway.
At least if you manage to set up your keyboard right, you can still
switch to the console until they remove that possibility, too.

Can you even switch when using wayland?  And how would you X11-forward
something to a wayland session through ssh, should wayland ever work
with NVIDIA cards?

>> There's just nothing better than fvwm ...
> On my laptop I'm using IceWM (with "metal2" style which finally
> includes a BSD start button, but at the top, where it belongs to)
> again, combined with wbar and a Mac background image for a "good
> look". ;-)
> On my home system, I found nothing better than a highly customized
> WIndowMaker with xdm.

Fvwm manages windows. All the other window managers I've tried force you
to manage the windows yourself.

How are IceWM and Windowmaker in that regard?

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