Still having trouble with package upgrades

thomas at thomas at
Wed Mar 7 17:01:07 UTC 2012

Hmm what is the problem ? Is there a log or something that you can share ?
Usually portsnap, freebsd-update, pkg_add -r or portupgrade that do binary update should be enough

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-----Original Message-----
From: David Jackson <djackson452 at>
Sender: owner-freebsd-questions at
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 11:28:47 
To: <freebsd-questions at>
Subject: Still having trouble with package upgrades

I still have yet to find a resolution to the problems I have had with
binary packages and upgrades on FreeBSD. Binary upgrading is broken with
every tool I have tried.

There is no real reason why FreeBSD should not provide a facility for users
to be able to binary upgrade to the most recent version of all packages
with a simple upgrade command.

One faulty argument I heard was that it is often not a good idea to upgrade
to new software release. The whole purpose of having a release cycle for
programs is to provide stable, tested releases for the public to install
that will will work properly, and improve upon and fix problems with older
releases. This is why mainline release are differentiated from betas and
the CVS downloads which are experimental. So you really do want the most
recent release, especially for corrections to any security problem. Making
upgrades more difficult actually makes the system more insecure by exposing
people for a long time to security problems that were fixed in software but
making it difficult for people to upgrade.

As for the security issues of downloading binary packages. The fact is
source packages are not safer than binary packages, more on that in a bit.
I am astonished that people here would not realise the obvious, having safe
binary installs is do-able from mirror sites, just have the package
management software download MD5s from many mirror sites, compare them and
test the downloaded package, is they are off, then the package will not be
installed the user will be prompted to allow a notification of the problem
to be sent to the FreeBSD administrators. The fact is, binary releases are
no more dangerous than source releases, someone could just as easily insert
bad code in a source code package on a mirror, you need automated MD5
checking anyway, for both binary or source upgrades. So the idea that
source upgrades are safer is false, just dead wrong.

As for compile options, the solution is simple, compile in all feature
options and the most commonly used settings into the binary packages, for
the standard i386 CPU. If people want customisations then they can build
the software for themselves.

A good software philosophy is to allow software to work out of the box with
as little configuration as possible, but allow everything to be configured
by the user if they want, by shipping software with reasonable defaults
which can be overridden by the user. Make simple things easy and
complicated things doable. In GUI, by default, complexity can be hidden
from users, but if people want fine grain control, they should be free to
use advanced screens of the GUI to get complex, fine grained control. In
GUI design, more commonly used settings can be provided more upfront while
advanced features for use by experts can be placed deeper in advanced or
expert screens oft the GUI. Everything should be able to be configured or
accomplished by both GUI and CLI and API.

A good user friendly model for a useable OS is to allow for binary packages
of the entire system to be upgraded with a single upgrade command. It
should work out of the box without hassle. Keeping software up to date to
recent releases is good practice, remember what I said about the purpose of
software releases. make it easy.

why dont the freebsd administrators just have a build machine that
automatically compiles the software and makes them available as the ports
are updated.

The user should be able to  keep their system up to date without doing any
system wide all at once OS-release upgrades at all. There is no reason why
kernel and userland programs have to be upgraded at the same time.
Especially considering its a good design practice for kernel to provide
backward compatability. Instead the system would be piecemeal updated over
time, including the kernel, in a piecemeal fashion. The need for system
wide OS distribution version numbers like FreeBSD 9.0 is becoming obsolete.
Versions are still very valuable for the kernel, but for collections of the
entire system software, it has become much less relevant.  This was from an
age when people would receive a Tape or CD in the mail and update
everything all at once, now software can be upgraded in a piecemeal way
over time with automatic updates. The CD-based upgrade and all at once
system wide upgrades actually for reasons are inferior, in that it meant
often months would go by before a software program was updated, delying the
application of vital security fixes. Before the age of the internet and the
hacker, that may have been acceptable. Its not anymore. With Firefox and
Flash for instance, security fixes are made sometimes weekly, with an
system wide at once upgrade model, it could be a very long time between
upgrades of such software between releases of the OS software distribution
CD. The idea of waiting on a FreeBSD kernel release to upgrade firefox is
absurd, and the idea that firefox must be upgraded during a kernel upgrade
is also absurd. The piecemeal model is much more convenient for users,
providing more up to date packages and no OS release upgrade hassle.

There really should be little reason for release upgrades anymore these
days, when the different parts of the system can be upgraded independantly
through a binary package management tool, including kernel and user

When a new kernel is released, there is no reason to reinstall all of the
packages on the system at the same time. Since the kernel and userland
packages have different development cycles, there is no reason why there
has to be synchronization of the upgrading.

Some here suggested PC-BSD, it was no better at all than FreeBSD, In fact
in its documentation it demanded a complete system reinstall just to
upgrade to a new kernel version. An OS that requires a user to reinstall
everything just to upgrade the kernel is not user friendly. It creates more
trouble and difficulty for users and ironically makes the system more user
unfriendly, and makes these users suffer due to the design faults of the
system, a user having to upgrade userland packages for a kernel upgrade is
a symptom of serious design faults and deficiencies. These two parts should
be able to be upgraded independently and a good system assures backwards
compatability support so older packages can run on a newer kernel.

For now I have totally given up on FreeBSD, all I had with FreeBSD were
problems, big problems. The lack of smooth binary upgrades, and the poor
virtual box support made it very difficult to use.
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