Tips for installing windows and freeBSD both.. anyone??

Polytropon freebsd at
Fri Nov 12 19:58:45 UTC 2010

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:33:38 -0800, Rob Farmer <rfarmer at> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:06, Polytropon <freebsd at> wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:21:51 -0800, Rob Farmer <rfarmer at> wrote:
> >> I'm not saying the CLI is universally bad - if you gain competence
> >> with a set of programs that you use frequently, it can be very
> >> efficient. It does make it hard to enter a new area, though - you've
> >> got to learn some before you can do anything.
> >
> > When entering WHICH field new to you this is different?
> >
> > Repeat after me: Computers. Are. Not. Easy. :-)
> None - but people don't feel like they are entering a new field.

Hey, I was just kidding. :-)

Computers and HOW we INTERACT with them have come a long way.
The more BASIC your skills are, the better you can mater
complex tasks - the tasks that are impossible to solve for
the self-proclaimed dynamical long-legged elastic group-oriented
program manangers. :-)

> Everyone uses computers - public schools have spent massive amounts of
> money to start kids using computers at 5 or 6 years old, if they
> haven't already at home.

Early indoctrination is the best. When the basics are learned,
it's very easy to introduce misbeliefs, "musts" and strange
concepts (or their absence at all). Schools are the ideal place
for that.

Using a computer and KNOWING about a computer are different
things. As a car driver, I don't have to exactly know how the
car works in every detail. Still I have to know the rules that
apply in traffic. I need to have a driving license that states
that I know - or I won't be able to participate in traffic.
I'm just mentioning this as people do like car analogies. :-)

What I want to say is that: Using the computer in a "trial & error
manner" may be sufficient for some jobs, but even animals can be
more clever than that. They even think before they act. School
has done a good job convincing children to switch off their
brain when switching on the computer. You can see the absence
of common sense nearly everywhere where computers are in regular
use. Don't force me to give examples. :-)

> So the discussion isn't framed as learning something new - its "why
> should we change the way everyone has been working for years?"

Because your assumption is wrong. Why should we change it? No,
we should not change it. The question is: WHO should change it,
and WHY. Let me answer quickly: Those who need to do serious
work (=who), because their money and therefore their future
depends on it (=why).

> To use a US example, you see the same thing with the SI/metric system.
> Scientists and other technical people use it almost universally
> without issue (except for some oddities, PSI is somewhat popular) - it
> is better for real/serious work, but the general public doesn't see it
> as new or valuable - its just a stupid change in the way everything
> has always been done.

Exchange "always" to "for a long time" (which may be less than
a man's life span for computer related topics).

If you emphasize the "Where's the benefit?" approach, just see
what incompatibility and misunderstandings can create in DIFFICULT
situations. When terminonoly isn't used properly, when people
can't even express what they need - why? Because they never
learned the WORDS that are needed. Our spoken and written language
heavily relies on words and how we use them. Words are a domain
of CLI, natively, while GUI operates on pictures, images, symbols.
Of course symboles are also a kind of language, but this language
is often much harder to learn.

The circle closes: When scholar education didn't provide the
basics of language, how can an individual be able to use a system
that depends on language (when this individual has only learned
to chose from a predefined set of options)?

Seeing things "as new" can be a great accelleration in promoting
changes. People "want new", because their friends "have new", or
the neighbor "has better". Using this approach, together with the
mechanisms of advertising that control the market, people can be
forced to DO anything, BUY anything, BELIEVE anything - and those
people even believe they are choosing freely.

To adopt that concept to the consideration GUI vs. CLI, or "how
good is _this_ GUI", advertising dictates how people think about
the whole topic. A shiny application window, dancing elephants,
lots of blingbling, stylish animations and sounds can make them
really forget about what has been their primary interest: to use
the PC in order to get a JOB DONE. "Entertainment" ia a magic
word you often see here, as well as "experience". It depends on
the individidual state of mind what a person enjoys as "enter-
taining" or "experiencing". A video game can do that, as well
as a book.

I may use an example from psychiatry: In the past we had patients 
who suffered from "pathological gambling". They sat infront of
one-armed bandits and were putting all their money (as well as
NOT their money) into the slot machine. More and more, day after
day. The effects presented by the machine was giving them "excite-
ment" and "joy", the overall setting "commodity" and "a familiar
warmth" (as long as they HAD money). This made them forget what
was REALLY happening - them losing all their money. The continuous
bombardement of the mind with this setting lead to a change of
how "thoughts were made", and strange expectations came up: "The
slot machine HAS to pay my money back!" or "I'm not responsible
for losing my money, the slot machine took it!" or even "I *have
to* gamble! I must win my money back!"

Bringing this example into the initial discussion: You often see
users who are familiar with GUIs (they'll never admit they have
learned anything!) that they have strange concepts in mind, or
simply deny the possibility of "a differen reality" (work that
can be done in 1/10th the time, for example). Those also put their
cup of coffee onto the fingerslime-glidepad of their laptop and
complain that the coffee warmer doesn't work. :-)

No, seriously: The more educated you are when approaching GUI
concepts, the more you can form a valueful opinion about it.
Many aspects are individual experiences from daily use. As your
knowledge (as a professional) is usually MUCH MORE than just
pointing and grunting, erm, clicking, you are able to "look
behind the curtain". This may lead you to the opinion that
GUI program Y is pure crap, while Z is good for the job, while
your boss insists on using Y - unlike Z - as it has singing
and dancing bunnies. =^_^=

Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

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