Polytropon freebsd at edvax.de
Wed Oct 28 20:05:46 UTC 2009

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:13:02 -0400, PJ <af.gourmet at videotron.ca> wrote:
> And I do wish I could use only FreeBSD... the
> problem is that there are some limitations on compatibility with the
> "normal" user's MS systems...

You're mixing up things here. Things in MICROS~1 land are
not compatible to the rest of the world.

> OpenOffice.org is not completely
> compatible with MS nor are the Adobe products completely replaceable - [...]

Vice versa.

> [...] mainly because the commercial printers and other users are not equipped
> or compatible with Unixes.

That's correct. "Modern" printers aren't compatible (in terms
of compatibility or compliance to existing standards). This
is true for many other kind of devices, such as webcams, scanners
and digital media (cameras, players).

> And, of course, the difficulty with learning
> curves and adaptability of the unix alternatives are also deterrents. :-(

I don't think that's correct. Remember, in the past, ordinary
users found their way with DOS and used "complicated" programs.
Is there so much more dumbness around today? No. I think it's
just the result of aggressive marketing and clever indoctrination.

> I don't know if I'll ever become a master, but I am learning more by
> actually using it since I am a firm believer in direct use learning.

It's always wise to use "experimental testing" and "autodicatic
reading" side by side. Of course, most people don't learn without
making their own mistakes, but there's no need to repeat all
the stupid mistakes that happen if a person doesn't read the
manpage or learn about a certain syntax, concept or procedure.

> The only reason I use MS is because most "normal" users use word,
> illustrator, photoshop.

Are you talking about those who use PIRATED COPIES of the programs
you mentioned? :-)

> They are a huge pain because they have a lot of
> bugs that have been around for a long time and have never been properly
> addressed by MS or ms developers like Adobe.

They simply aren't interested.

> Just check the web and you
> will see that there are an awful lot of crash problems on the MS office,
> the Windows OSs as well as the Adobe stuff. I just reinstalled the CS4
> programs on a fresh XP install and immediately I'm getting errors about
> harware acceleration when the system is installed on the same computer
> on a different disk and was not getting those errors on the other
> installation. The only reason I reinstalled the CS4 was because I wanted
> to have it working cleanly with a fresh installation of MS Office which
> was impossible to install/reinstall/fix on the other disk. Now the MS
> Office works fine, but CS4 does not... talk about problems....

This is the kind of "user-friendly", "modern" and "good looking"
that some people seem to expect from FreeBSD. :-)

> So,
> FreeBSD is not really any more complicated. The only time I really have
> problems with FreeBSD is when so;mething stupid happens, like a physical
> disc suicide (mbr sector gone) or if I did something accidentally like
> shutting down.

That's exactly the point: The FreeBSD OS does what it is told to,
it is completely predictable. If it acts strangely, there is a
reason for it, e. g. faulty hardware, wrong command, missing
library... In MICROS~1 land you often simply cannot tell if it
is a defective installation, a virus, malware, or whatever, so
you need to reinstall everything.

> I then try to learn what to do to fix things (have never
> lost any data - was able to recover it), how to clone, dump, restore.
> These are processes that are not simple and are not something that I
> have needed before.

Hmmm... I think they are simple, but that's a very individual
point of view. Just imagine how simple it is to use the cp
command to copy files, and in opposite, how complicated it is
to achieve the same using JCL. :-)

Once you have understood a certain concept, you can rely on
this knowledge, no matter which version of FreeBSD, which BSD
or even which UNIX you are using. Things you've learned will
serve you well everywhere, even in Linux. You won't find such
an experience in MICROS~1 land.

> What is great about FreeBSD is that it is quite simple to set up,
> configure and use. Problems arise when one makes errors or there are
> incompatibilities caused by some installation conflicts and that seems
> to be the cause of most difficulties.

As I said, this is "completely correct" if you consider the
fact that the OS can only act as it is told.

> The list here is very hehlpful, especially for lazy guys like me.

This list represents a very friendly and educated community.

> But to study the manual is beyond the capabilities of anyone ... sure,
> you can read it and study it... but you will forget anything you have
> read almost immediately if you are not applying what you are studying at
> once... there may be some residual information captured by one's brain
> but practical application is about the only way to really learn and
> understand... especially with the help of those who have dared to tread
> there before you...

The main goal of reading manpages is UNDERSTANDING them. Nearly
nobody knows all options of all existing programs in all the
variations, but if you know how to obtain information and how
to interpret it, you're already on the next stage.

> Also, from the suggestions and solutions I have received on the list, I
> have learned many, many little tips and tricks that I would never have
> picked up without extensive digging.

This is true for mee, to. I keep copies of messages that I find
interesting, maybe a useful set of PF rules or a neat awk trick.

> I really turn to the list when I have some problem about which I am not
> totally clear or have difficulty resolving. But then, I must admit, I
> don't really depend on the list as it is really very simple to fix the
> problems I have by just installing a fresh system and then setting up
> the programs and don't bother with fixing things just start all over...
> not very informative but easy to fix (maybe a bit time consuming) .

Hmm... I always found reinstalling everything from scratch more
time consuming than investigating the problem and just correcting
THIS particular problem.

> As I
> have stated before, things like flashplugin have become a problem only
> after I started doing some other things like cloning and dump/restores.

How to both things stand in relation?

> But I did set up flashplugin correctly on both 64bit and 32bit machines
> and it worked just fine... until I changed things while cloning. 

Cloning shouldn't have changed anything, it's a read-only process
on the source side.

Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

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