7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell

[Mel Flynn]

On Thursday 30 July 2009 14:50:07 Freminlins wrote:
> 2009/7/30 Mel Flynn
> <mel.flynn+fbsd.questions at mailing.thruhere.net<mel.flynn%2Bfbsd.questions at m
>ailing.thruhere.net>
>
> > You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system,
> > for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not
> > all) of
> > the configuration has been done for you.
>
> I disagree with that. It even says on the FreeBSD web site "FreeBSD® is an
> advanced operating system for modern server, desktop...".

The key is that the Xorg software is *not* part of FreeBSD. It may work, it 
may not. A FreeBSD release is shipped with the intention that all software in 
base and kernel are "working by default" and if it's not, the FreeBSD 
developers claim responsibility for fixing it. The line is gray where it comes 
to X11, yet it's still a line.

> I have used FreeBSD on the desktop for about 6 years (but not yet running
> 7.2). It has mostly been a pleasure. I didn't like it when X was changed to
> individual packages, as it now takes considerably longer to install. And
> the output from pkg_info takes correspondingly longer to search through. It
> also installs two scripting languages (Perl and Python). I haven't had a
> problem configuring X for years.

I never claimed that FreeBSD can't be used on a desktop, I've been doing that 
since 4.7-RELEASE. Whether you and me can do it, is not up for dispute. What 
is, is that bugs are attributed to 7.2-RELEASE, which are all bugs in 3rd 
party software and should be reported to ports@, with proper information if 
people care about those problems getting fixed. Even then it may be out of the 
hands of those volunteers, if it relies on propriety software of which the 
developers have expressed no interest to support FreeBSD (like flash).

> If something has changed which then causes problems to end users, then that
> is not good. And it's no good telling people "use PCBSD" or something else.
> That's not what we want. We want to use FreeBSD on the desktop.

And we are. It's not for everybody and PCBSD is a FreeBSD desktop system 
specifically created for people that don't want to do all the configuring and 
troubleshooting that may come with installing a desktop system. PCBSD is 
FreeBSD (the latest major version -STABLE), with extra effort to make things 
easier and people claiming responsibility for a working graphical desktop.

> Don't try and put people off using FreeBSD. It would be much better to help
> them resolves the problems they are having.

As said above, PCBSD is FreeBSD. And for many, it is the best help one can 
give. One must first learn to walk, if one wants to run.

Also, if you _really_ want things to change for *BSD, then you should acquire 
a group of people that are willing and able to fork Xorg, get rid of it's hal 
and python dependency, repackage sensibly and do some proper release 
engineering. Especially the latter is what is causing the problems of late. 
Either that, or convince the Xorg people to do that.
-- 
Mel