Modern FreeBSD Installer?

[Polytropon]

On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:24:53 +0200, beni <beni at brinckman.info> wrote:
> On Sunday 26 April 2009 19:32:07 Polytropon wrote:
> > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:06:58 +0200, beni <beni at brinckman.info> wrote:
> > > Why should a graphical installer have less functionality ?
> 
> > hasn't been claimed. GUI installer just requires more resources,
> > more overhead.
> 
> Why should a GUI need more functionality than a text based installer ?

Hasn't been claimed, too.



> Why 
> can't both have the same functionality ?

A GUI installer is acceptable as long as it has AT LEAST the
functionalities that the respective (existing) text mode
installer already has. If it offers additional functionalities,
well, fine, but it shouldn't be limited.



> But why should a GUI be less functional ? I don't see why !

A GUI *IS* less functional if implemented poorly, that's the
point. It's not better or worse per se. Keep in mind that it
has - by definition - another playing field, so a GUI installer
cannot be handled via serial console, and cannot be used by
blind users.



> I'm not a sysadmin, indeed. But it should surprise me a lot if a admin who has 
> to, as you say yourself, keep every server running, need to (re)install a lot 
> of servers on a regular basis. Then there is something seriously wrong. It was 
> my believe that a server needs to be kept running, not being reinstalled twice 
> a week (with or without a GUI installer).

Exactly. That's why I mentioned that an installer is a very
important piece of software, but you don't use it day by day.
You only use it occassionally, but in such a situation, it has
to offer the functionalities needed and a predictable way of
working.



> And so a desktop user has to do it with the prehistoric sysinstall... And I 
> don't value an OS by its installer, but as a desktop user I think I have 
> already done a bit of (re)installations, be it debian, ubuntu, suse, or 
> Micros~1 in different flavors. 

Another polite question: What makes you believe that a GUI
installer for FreeBSD - if it existed - would work (read:
look and feel) exactly the same as the installers you already
know from various Linusi or "Windows"? Maybe a different
approach (other than "next, next, next, yes, okay, next,
next, reboot) is taken? It's at least possible...



> > As I explained in an earlier post: If the GUI installer is
> > (a) not the only way, (b) not an auto-default, (c) does work
> > well enough even on older hardware and (d) doesn't make things
> > more complicated, I wouldn't have any problem with it, I would
> > even use it!
> 
> Nice to hear it :-) Me too !

I have some experience with PC-BSD and DesktopBSD. Their
installers behave the way MICROS~1 users would expect them
to work, and I think most Linusi (with GUI installers) do
work the same way.



> A pc-bsd is installed in what, 5 or 6 clics (if it is that much). Same for 
> windows [...]

Hahaha! :-)



> [...] or ubuntu. Text based installation takes more time i think. Finetuning 
> and installing programs afterwards takes more time, but that is the same for 
> all those OS'es, no ?

No.

The installer of FreeBSD lets you do much more than those
"5 click installers". This is neccessary because FreeBSD is,
as I already mentioned, a multi-purpose OS that can be run
on a server, a desktop, or a mixed form. Because there are
not hundreds of different distributions aiming at different
groups of users, the installer has to offer everything that
is needed - by the desktop user and by the server admin.
So, of couse, yes, things are more detailed, more complex.
But if you're intending to run FreeBSD anyway, that isn't
a problem.

Maybe a FreeBSD installer could be implemented with "5 times
pressing the ENTER key", but it would imply that there are
many decisions to be taken away from the user and substituted
by default values, such as:
	- wipe the entire disk
	- create one slice with one / partition
	- put everything into the partition
	- install everything from the CD
	- install all services
	- start all services
You know where this is going...



> So I think we will agree to disagree...

And this is my receipt for your receipt. :-)



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...