Stumped:: web HTML. Caution, may be OT.

Frank Shute frank at
Sat May 31 00:51:41 UTC 2008

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:07:56PM -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary Kline [mailto:kline at]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 3:14 PM
> > To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> > Cc: Kevin Downey; FreeBSD Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: Stumped:: web HTML. Caution, may be OT.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 	Chill down a bit, okay?  first, (as the OP), i did not know
> > 	thaat there was *this** great a disparity in thee rendering
> > 	between classes of browsers.  i used to stick pretty close 
> > 	to the (or whatever it was).   i didn't think the
> > 	difference extended to how the <TABLE> stuff was parsed.
> > 
> Gary, the problem is that the majority of people out there use
> IE, most IE7, but still a lot of IE6, and a few deihards IE5.
> Then there are the older versions of Safari on the Mac - there's
> still a lot of Mac's around that are running 10.2 believe it or
> not, and those came with MS IE for the Mac which -really- munges
> some pages.  And Safari for Windows - which is a bit different than
> Safari on the Mac.
> And then there are all the Unix browsers.
> There are some test programs that can help.  But the validators
> can tell you your code is right and it still will display differently
> in some of the browsers.  The only way to do it is to do what
> the pros do - which is have all the different systems available
> and load their pages in those browsers.

I test my pages with IE7, Safari on XP and Firefox on FreeBSD. Fixing
problems with IE6 or anything else is too much to expect from amateur
pages (which mine are).

> Telling people "my site is fine your browser is fucked, get a
> better one" is the mark of an amateur who is also being extremely
> presumptive.  It's the old "do it my way or fuck off"

You forget that Gary is an amateur. Hence, any complaints can be dealt
with "they validate, F off and get a better browser". (When he gets
round to making them validate :)

> This is what Microsoft tells people - and most FreeBSDers and
> Linux people claim they are on the moral high ground because they
> aren't forcing their stuff down people's throats - that is, 
> until they create a webpage and then they have no problem forcing
> software down people's throats to see it, I guess....

I can't see anything wrong with telling people to use better software,
you're doing them a favour! It's obviously different if you're writing
pages for a commercial site. You should still write pages that
validate and there are various hacks you can use with CSS, the DOM and
Javscript to make your pages appear OK in older broken browsers...and
newer ones with bugs.

> Ted




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