Starting again from Scratch

[Graham Bentley]

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:04:44 +0300
Manolis Kiagias <sonicy at otenet.gr> wrote:

> Graham Bentley wrote:
> > OK, I am fairly new to FreeBSD and returning from a long while away.
> >
> > I am currently working on an install I have performed from the 6.2
> > release discs I downloaded several days ago.
> >
> > I chose X-Kern-Dev install and have a mixed bag of pkg_add -r
> > packages, some programs I have downloaded and compiled from source
> > from developers sites (Claws-mail and Xfce4 to name 2) as well as
> > apps I cd'ed into into /usr/ports/name and made [nvidia for 1]
> >
> > Whilst I am aware there are more than serveral ways of doing things
> > and for different reasons I am inviting advice on my target install
> > which is a 'desktop' for basic office use, based on Xfce4.
> >
> > I would like to thank Nikola for his advice and also ask what is 
> > the generally accepted method of installing / keeping updated way 
> > of getting things done?
> >
> > I am only aware of the names cvsup, portupgrade, portmanager, 
> > portsnap, make world etc and am getting this round my neck a 
> > bit but this is what I have summized ;
> >
> > 1) Do basic [minimal] install of 6.2 rel from disc 1
> > 2) pkg_add cvsup-without-gui and get the latest ports installed
> > 3) Build *everything* from this ports tree [including base/kernel?]
> > 4) Find out how to keep updated / informed on updates to packages
> >    I have installed, and do so where necessary.
> >
> > If anyone can advise, point me in the direction of tutorials
> > or step by steps, on the above It would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > I would like to understand why its not so great to just install
> > everything from pkg_add, whats the advantages of ports etc 
> >
> > Until then I am enjoying using my i386-unknown-freebsd6.2
> > installation - even if it more by good luck than good management :)
> >
> > Thanks in advance of time spent in replying !
> >
> >   
> You will hear many different opinions on this one, and I really doubt
> there is one true answer (TM)
> It all comes down IMHO to what amount of time you really want to spend
> on configuring / updating your system, how important it is for you to
> have the "latest and greatest" and what you are going to use it for.
> I will try to answer some of your questions from my point of view, but
> in any case you will probably receive lots of answers which may
> contradict and you should examine each of them to decide which suits
> your ideas better.
> First of all, to save you the trouble of installing cvsup from ports
> or packages, bear in mind the base system already has a utlity called
> csup, functionality is the same, you do not have to install anything.
> The handbook is simply not yet updated on this one.
> 
> - Packages vs ports: Packages tend to be outdated. Most of the time
> the packages you get when you do a pkg_add -r something are the ones
> that came out during the RELEASE. There is a (rather little) known
> env. variable called PACKAGESITE which can be set to another location
> for pkg downloads so you get latest packages. 
> See the important note in
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/packages-using.html
> - Ports: Using ports will allow you to get the "latest and greatest"
> software that is available for compiling (assuming you use csup or
> cvsup). Bear in mind the big ports like Gnome or Xorg make take hours
> (or days...) to compile, and in particular if your hardware is modest
> or memory limited, you may run out of patience waiting. In fact
> waiting for something like an Xorg upgrade to compile is completely
> counter productive if you wish to get a machine to production use
> quickly. When you gain more experience in BSD and have a few machines
> available you could use them to create ready packages for your other
> systems. Ports may become complicated - sometimes they will not
> compile, either due to the port itself being faulty at the particular
> moment or conflicting with something else you have installed. I
> particularly dislike the idea of mixing ports and packages at the
> same time on my systems. -Basic installations: If you wish to make a
> server with no graphic environment (as almost all servers should be
> IMO) you will probably not need any super-big ports to be compiled
> and in this case I would go for a complete ports-based system. I
> would use custom install and install everything but X, the ports
> collection, and no packages. The csup the ports, compile essential
> things (like bash for me) and any servers (apache, mysql etc)  from
> ports . These are not very intensive  and you will get your server
> running in a reasonable amount of time.  Also compile portupgrade (or
> portupgrade-devel) to help keep your ports up to date. I also
> recommend portaudit which checks for security issues in your
> currently installed ports. It will even send you updates about them.
> -Compiling the kernel / building the world: There seems to be some
> confusion here around many people. Having installed the base system
> with full sources you can compile and install your own custom kernel
> at any time. See:
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/kernelconfig-building.html
> IF HOWEVER you upgrade the system sources using csup (this does NOT
> have to do with ports, you need a different supfile to update system
> sources) you will move your system to the -STABLE branch. In this
> case you will need to recompile not only the kernel but also the
> complete set of base programs and utilities, what people refer to as
> building the world. After you build the world, you can rebuild the
> kernel as many times as you like assuming you don't change sources
> (csup again). For most applications you may find that simply
> rebuilding the kernel from the RELEASE sources you already have is
> good enough. In fact you may continue using the GENERIC kernel if you
> like. I assume quite a few people build their own kernel just for the
> experience and the fun in it :) The process is very well documented
> and quite "easy".
> 
> There are quite a few other points / ports / programs, but this post
> is getting very long anyway. Enjoy your new system and read the
> FreeBSD handbook. It is a superb reference and your best friend
> (along with this list :))
> 
> Manolis
> 

Thanks for the reply Manolis. As I mentioned in my first post, this
isnt for an important server, its just for 'desktop' use, for my own
amusement, a learning platform. I dont actually need the 'latest and
greatest' bleeding edge code, more so a reliable system for everyday
work, that I dont really want to spend too long tinkering but more
time using. As you say, I also wondered whether its worth me updating
X or building world, just to send some email and browse the web :)

I have in the past built a new kernel and it did seem faster so maybe
that was a worthy tweak on a rainy night !!!

Best wishes to all !!