solaris

[White Hat]

--- Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 06/09/06, White Hat <pigskin_referee at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- Freminlins <freminlins at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 06/09/06, White Hat
> <pigskin_referee at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  I have
> > > > tried Open Office. No matter what anyone says,
> it
> > > is
> > > > just not as full featured as Word 2003. It is
> not
> > > even
> > > > close.
> > >
> > >
> > > True, but also compare the cost. Not even
> close...
> >
> > Immaterial. the singularly most important feature
> is
> > suitability to task. If it is free and it does not
> > work, what good is it?
> 
> 
> In what way does it "not work"? It's enough for many
> people, so why should
> they pay more?

I never said that anyone should pay more. I simply
said that it was not suitable for the tasks that both
I, and primarily my wife, use it for. Again, the price
of an object is secondary to its usefulness. At the
very least it has to be compared against it.
 
> > He/she does
> > > > not want to read tons of manuals and spend
> hours
> > > in a
> > > > frustrating attempt to get it to run.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is where you are completely wrong. I work
> for
> > > an ISP. I'm not
> > > responsible for tech support but I keep my "ear
> to
> > > the ground". A VERY large
> > > number of callers have problems configuring
> Outlook
> > > Express, for example. No
> > > matter what the polls say, the experience is
> often
> > > very different. They may
> > > not read the manuals (because they are no longer
> > > supplied), they just ring a
> > > call centre instead.
> >
> > Yes, the lack of documentation is a shame. Usually
> it
> > can be obtained for an additonal cost which I
> suppose
> > is better than nothing. The same lack of
> documentation
> > plagues every facet of software today. Of course,
> it
> > has been a boon for the after market book manual
> > publishers. BTW, you have failed to document so
> called
> > help line assistants who are nothing more than
> company
> > mouth pieces who have at most a superficial
> knowledge
> > of the product that they are suppose to be
> assistant a
> > customer with. I had the experience of talking
> with a
> > customer support moron who tried to sell me a new
> > router while I attempted to explain the router was
> > fine, but the installation CD was defective. I
> > eventually just sent it back for a replacement.
> > Usually these individuals are barely equipped to
> > handle the job they are given.
> >
> > However, you have made my point. If a user cannot
> > decipher how to configure a simple thing like
> Outlook
> > Express, and there are programs available that
> will do
> > it for them, then how are they suppose to be
> capable
> > of handling a CLI OS like FreeBSD? It boggles the
> mind
> > -- at least mine. Worse, the configuration of OE
> is
> > handled by a wizard. It is truly sad when a user
> > cannot configure something when it is simplified
> down
> > to that level.
> 
> 
> So on the one hand you think that for the sake of
> the morons FreeBSD should
> made into something other than "a CLI OS" (which if
> you put KDE or GNOME on
> it it already is, btw), and on the other hand you
> despise the morons who
> can't even use a wizard?

I never inferred that FBSD should evolve into
anything. It performs quite nicely as a CLI. Printing
is not all that great, and the use of many devices
such as web cams can prove to be a chore to install,
but that has more to due with the creators of those
devices and lack thereof of proper drivers, etc. Even
devices that do work are not always fully supported.
Again, most likely the device creators are not
supporting the device under FreeBSD, or any other OS
except win32. Again, it is all about monetary return.
I cannot blame them, I like to eat too.

Furthermore, I never said I despise anyone, except
perhaps pseudo technical help employees. However, even
they have to eat. I stated that it was a sad day when
someone could not ever configure OE, even when
assisted with a wizard. I think it is rather obvious
that these individuals would not be the target market
for FBSD.

> > The average user
> > > > does not care about configuring firewall, AV
> or
> > > > Spyware, etc. Just drop in a copy of ZA with
> > > perhaps
> > > > Sunbelt's Counter Spy and they are on their
> way.
> > >
> > >
> > > That's one statement contradicting the other.
> >
> > How? Drop in two CDs or download the programs, run
> > them and case closed. Neither one requires any
> > significant configuration. The defaults work just
> fine
> > for most users. You could eliminate the Counter
> Spy
> > since ZA has its own proprietary SpyWare program,
> but
> > I just happen to prefer Counter Spy.
> 
> 
> A decent router does not "require any significant
> configuration" either,
> despite the fact that it should include a firewall.
> And if you use a
> router/firewall, you shouldn't need to configure a
> firewall on your
> desktop/server either.

The key word here is 'significant'. That varies by
user to user. I believe that the use of an internal
firewall might very well be dictated by a users LAN
configuration. I only have four units networked
together, with only one avenue to the Internet, so
perhaps I don't need an extensive internal firewall.
However, I am sure that many users do. In any case, a
router is not an AV/SpyWare detection and elimination
program.

 
> BTW, if MS actually does market it 'One Care'
> program
> > suite, that might even obsolete that entire
> process. I
> > don't think they will offer it with the OS though.
> Too
> > much of a chance the government will protest.
> > Personally I believe a company should be allowed
> to
> > market its product anyway it wants without
> government
> > intervention; however, that is entirely another
> story.
> >
> 
> 
> That's a good idea. And I should be able to procure
> products and settle
> scores anyway I want without government
> intervention, too. </sarcasm>

Way out of line. No where did I even suggest the idea
of retribution. I assume that is what you are
referring to by "settle scores". I believe that within
a few carefully crafted guidelines perhaps, a
developer should be free to create and offer for sale,
distribution, give it away free for all I car
(FreeBSD) any item that they so desire. Let the market
decide whether or not the item if of any value.
Furthermore, I never mentioned 'procure' in my
statement. That is your own concoction. I am dead set
fascism, socialism or any other type of 'ism' you want
to infer when it comes to the freedom of creating and
marketing. Obviously, with a few carefully crafted
regulation; i.e., say of prescription drugs,
explosives -- things like that. I don't want to get
involved with basic economy 101 here however.

-- 


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