FreeBSD 6.0 - install critiques - install issues
F. Even - fbsd-questions
freebsdlists at elitists.org
Fri Jan 27 00:40:39 PST 2006
First I’d like to say that your website is very informative and I
appreciate the links. I would point out though that I’m not a newb and
you missed the point of most of my message.
> Message: 30
> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:16:58 -0800
> From: "Dan O'Connor" <dan at ferrarishields.com>
> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 6.0 - install critiques - install issues
> To: <freebsd-questions at freebsd.org>
> Message-ID: <037b01c62112$5d46b240$0599460a at dan>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> I've noticed zero oddities, if you're prepared as recommended in the
I was prepared, but the oddities I describe exist.
> Installation of 6.0 was dirt simple. Here's how i did it:
Yes, it is pretty easy. That doesn’t necessarily mean that there are
not oddities/issues/bugs in the install that could be looked over.
> When setup asks if you want to go back and change anything (before it
> installs the system), if you say yes, you get sysintall's menu--where
> you can configure/reconfigure your network interfaces, as well as all
> the other options that you were asked about.
...and that’s fine. I in fact did that, I know that. But that misses
the point. I think it is safe to say that most anyone would expect to
be returned to the point of the install where they were at when they hit
the cancel button. That is broken behavior, and the install has had
these type of oddities for as long as I can remember. I was just
figuring since it seems like sysinstall has grown slightly with the rest
of the OS that these little things might have been caught/fixed by now.
> Or, you can finish the install and edit /etc/rc.conf manually...it's one
> line to configure a network card:
> ifconfig_xl0="inet 22.214.171.124 netmask 255.255.255.0"
I realize that....but the issue is that sysinstall isn’t doing what most
any person would probably expect in that part of the install (if you
attempt to cancel out of it that is).
> Sendmail is *always* installed as part of the base system, since so many
> programs rely on it being there.
I realize that...I thought that might have changed with the option of
“No MTA” in sysinstall...but I’m starting to realize what that probably
means is “sendmail_enable=NONE” in /etc/rc.conf?
> You should install Postfix via the ports once your base system is up and
Yes, maybe, no. There is a menu option in sysinstall...I would expect
it to work. I ended up with postfix installed, but sendmail still
running and no startup script for postfix (or changes to mailer.conf to
enable it to start through the postfix sendmail binary). It appears No
MTA worked after I chose that after seeing sendmail up and running,
because it added “sendmail_enable=NONE” to rc.conf and sendmail wasn’t
running after a reboot.... So...now when I choose “postfix” again in
sysinstall, will it work this time? I guess I’ll try it when I get home
tonight and see. Either way...this is most DEFINITELY “odd” behavior at
the very least.
> If you do that, it will prompt you if you want Postfix to edit
> /etc/mailer.conf. At the end of the install, it gives you the exact
> lines you need to put in /etc/rc.conf to disable sendmail and use
> Here's how I do it:
You missed the whole point. I know how to install postfix. That’s not
the entire issue. I can grab it from source and install it also. No
big deal. The problem is that sysinstall isn’t working as expected here.
> Don't be afraid of the ports collection. Ports are your friend!
Gee...I wonder how I got bash on my machine after it was up and running....
> There's no need to go back and reinstall.
A matter of perspective. True...I suppose there is no *need*. I like
my systems to have gone through a completely event-less install process
though before moving on. Which technically means then that this install
became my “dry run” (which if sysinstall had behaved as I think most
people would expect, a “dry run” would be unnecessary).
> You should consider the installation procedure as nothing more than a
> means of getting all the files off the CD and onto your hard drive. From
> that point forward, FreeBSD is easily configured without using
> sysinstall. All you need to know how to do is use a keyboard. :-)
*sigh* Not at all condescending eh? I’m aware of this. BUT, having
options in sysinstall DOES make some things easier. Plus...what more
could you ask for in a menuing system? It’s concise, straight to the
point, and works in a terminal. Now if everything worked as expected,
it’d be close to perfect. Sometimes menu systems are nice, sometimes
they make some things easier...and depending on the system, sometimes
they help you learn about some things. Have you ever seen SMIT in AIX?
It has a cool option to show you the command the option you chose is
executing (if you didn’t already know). Very nice.
> Again, sendmail is part of the base system and is always installed. No
> need to remove it--you can easily run Postfix without having to remove
I wasn’t sure if this had changed or not in 6. Perl used to be part of
the base system also...and it isn’t anymore. It just wasn’t clear with
the options in sysinstall (in my eyes, “No MTA” in fact means NO MTA!!).
> I invite you to check out my FreeBSD Cheat Sheets; you'll find FreeBSD
> isn't nearly that hard to setup and use.
Nice site. I’ve never said it was hard to setup, and if you actually
read my entire message, you’d have realized that you didn’t really
address any of the issues that I brought up and that I actually have a
clue what I’m doing. The fact of the matter is that sysinstall has had
some odd/broken behavior for awhile...and for the time this great OS has
been around...I’m just rather surprised that it still does things
somewhat oddly. The fact that I couldn’t go back into sysinstall,
configure mail, pick postfix, and have it work, IS BROKEN! There should
at least be a caveat then that explains when it will work (say, only on
initial setup and if you haven’t already made another choice).
Actually...as an addendum to this...I've dug further into the MTA config
portion of sysinstall...and it is completely broke (worthy of a bug
Lesse...if you cancel out of the MTA/mail config during install, you are
left with sendmail.
If you go back later and choose "None" for MTA, it sets
sendmail_enable=NONE in rc.conf (reasonable).
Now...if you go back into sysinstall and choose Postfix, it installs
postfix, yet only re-enables sendmail, DESPITE sysinstall saying:
"Postfix is now installed and enabled as the default MTA."
Now...if I WERE a newbie...this would be annoyingly confusing.
Mind you, /etc/mail/mailer.conf isn't changed at all.
Taking it one step further...if you go back and choose "None" for an MTA
again, sysinstall places "sendmail_enable=NONE" in rc.conf again
(reasonable I suppose). Now...if I go back into sysinstall and choose
Exim for the MTA...well...it installs it and enables it as your default
----Mail - Exim
Exim is now installed and enabled as the default MTA.
# -- sysinstall generated deltas -- # Thu Jan 26 04:50:42 2006
root at vabsd# ps auxwww | grep exim
mailnull 442 0.0 0.5 5612 2756 ?? Is 4:53AM 0:00.00
/usr/local/sbin/exim -bd -q30m (exim-4.52-0)
root at vabsd# cat /etc/mail/mailer.conf
# --- Generated by sysinstall ---
# Execute exim instead of sendmail
...the downside is...now if you want to remove exim and choose a
different MTA through sysinstall....you can't.
Choosing "None" for an MTA will again set "sendmail_enable=NONE", yet
exim_enable will still =YES....meaning you still have an MTA enabled.
If you go through and pick Postfix yet again, it will simply set
sendmail_enable=YES again, but mailer.conf will still be configured for
exim, so it will fire up the exim sendmail binary (at NO point does the
MTA selection in sysinstall come remotely close to starting postfix,
which to any reasonable being I think would be classified as being broken).
P.S. I know how to get it working....but for the sake of simplicity and
non-confusion....sysinstall should have consistency in it's interface,
and the options that are presented should in fact work/do what they say.
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