[FYI] QT4 licensing looks very bad for *BSD

[Danny Pansters]

On Friday 1 July 2005 07:32, Josh Ockert wrote:
> On 6/30/05, Danny Pansters <danny at ricin.com> wrote:
> > Sorry for top posting...
> >
> > The crucial words are: "under the terms of this License". The confusion
> > is due to contradictions in the License. Which are theirs. And it's very
> > disputed as in "might be void".
> >
> > What GPL quotes can be used (remember it's a license not a law, BTW) for
> > the case when I use python bindings instead of C++ and (real) binding?
> >
> > And what about "Use" of the "Program". A toolkit has a clear "Use". And
> > there we have the "LGPL" case all over again.
> >
> > Personally I wouldn't mind if the QPL came back to life. For *BSD it was
> > a workable solution.
> >
> > On Friday 1 July 2005 04:44, Josh Ockert wrote:
> > > I'm not so sure you guys have this right.
> > >
> > > No BSD-licensed code is allowed to use a GPL library and remain
> > > BSD-licensed. According to the GPL, Section 2:
> > >
> > > "b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
> > > whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part
> > > thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties
> > > under the terms of this License."
> > >
> > > This very specifically includes works which use libraries; use of
> > > libraries with non-GPL software is to be done with the LGPL. That's
> > > why the first L in LGPL used to stand for "Library". Now it stands for
> > > "Lesser", because RMS wants to discourage its use; he has in fact
> > > claimed that many projects have been made open source because they
> > > wanted to use the readline library: "The Readline library implements
> > > input editing and history for interactive programs, and that's a
> > > facility not generally available elsewhere. Releasing it under the GPL
> > > and limiting its use to free programs gives our community a real
> > > boost. At least one application program is free software today
> > > specifically because that was necessary for using Readline" (see
> > > http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/07/15/163208.shtml).
> > >
> > > The GPL clarifies this point: "This General Public License does not
> > > permit incorporating your program into proprietary programs. If your
> > > program is a subroutine library, you may consider it more useful to
> > > permit linking proprietary applications with the library. If this is
> > > what you want to do, use the GNU Library General Public License
> > > instead of this License." While this only explicitly refers to
> > > proprietary licenses, other open source licenses are also excluded
> > > because the 'viral' part of the GPL requires that they be distributed
> > > under the terms of "this License" (meaning the GPL).
> > >
> > > I believe where the confusion comes in is here: The QT Public License.
> > > It allowed redistribution of any linked work under any Open Source
> > > license. To wit:
> > >
> > > "6. You may develop application programs, reusable components and
> > > other software items that link with the original or modified versions
> > > of the Software. These items, when distributed, are subject to the
> > > following requirements: (a) You must ensure that all recipients of
> > > machine-executable forms of these items are also able to receive and
> > > use the complete machine-readable source code to the items without any
> > > charge beyond the costs of data transfer. (b) You must explicitly
> > > license all recipients of your items to use and re-distribute original
> > > and modified versions of the items in both machine-executable and
> > > source code forms. The recipients must be able to do so without any
> > > charges whatsoever, and they must be able to re-distribute to anyone
> > > they choose. (c) If the items are not available to the general public,
> > > and the initial developer of the Software requests a copy of the
> > > items, then you must supply one."
> > >
> > > You can read a whole flamewar on the Debian lists from when the QPL
> > > was first coming out:
> > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/1999/03/msg00064.html
> > >
> > > If QT4 is licensed exclusively under GPL I do not believe that BSDL
> > > software can continue to be written with it without exploiting some
> > > kind of legal loophole. I'd need to read the GPL in more detail before
> > > giving my opinion. Please note that I'm not a licensed lawyer, just a
> > > law geek applying to law school and finishing up his senior year in
> > > undergrad; take my opinion with a grain of salt. But please do look up
> > > the references, and if you have doubts, read the BSDL, the QPL, the
> > > GPL, and the LGPL, and any clarifying text thereon.
> >
> > No. It's not about being licensed GPL. That allows for parts being BSDL.
> > It's about having to relicense BSDL -> GPL and we believe that can not be
> > enforcable (at least not when abiding to GPL)
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dan
>
> I don't really see the contradiction in the GPL.

The contradiction is in Use of a toolkit which only use is techinically to 
create a derivative. Hence the LGPL.

> Regardless of whether it's a law or a license, it's binding. Nothing
> else gives you the right to use the Qt libraries.

Yes, but an EULA requiring release of 3rd party code under GPL goes beyond the 
scope and applicability of the GPL as far as I can tell. That's what this is 
about. Do they really require that or was it just stated in a somewhat 
mangled way.

> As far as binding, if it links with the program, then it's covered
> under the GPL.

Yes. I'm not disputing that at all. The GPL allows me to write something based 
on a GPL piece of code and release *my* stuff as BSDL (and likely with a 
notice about licensing for "the next guy"). The GPL does not even permit any 
stipulation on which license a 3rd party may use. I'm sure that's a conscious 
decision. The GPL code is protected already as it is. 

> I think you're seriously confused on something. The GPL does require
> that derivative works (including programs linked to GPL libraries) be
> distributed under the GPL. It does NOT require that the GPL be the
> sole license applicable to that code.

ABIDING to the GPL not UNDER the GPL itself (the 3rd party program).

> In essence, you're releasing any BSDL code linked with Qt under the
> GPL and there's nothing you can do to stop this.

Except not releasing but I didn't dispute this. Well, they had the QPL before 
which was slightly different but for us practically the same.

> Thing is, I don't see why this is a big deal. The BSDL forces you to
> release it under the GPL as well. The BSDL-granted rights are a
> superset of the GPL-granted rights, and according to the BSDL license
> I can redistribute any BSDL code under any license I want, whether
> that be a restrictive EULA (like with Microsoft's ftp) or the GPL.

You are never allowed to relicense anything.

> I think I've gone and confused myself. But my point is that no BSDL
> code will be found to be infringing on the GPL by not being
> distributable, so why does this even matter?

It matters if I write code and I want to give away that code on MY terms, not 
the FSF's terms. That code only of course, we agree on that.

Cheers,

Dan