Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java
Ted Mittelstaedt
tedm at toybox.placo.com
Wed Jan 5 12:25:26 PST 2005
Hi Paul,
I'm going to top-post here since you used html formatting and it's hard to
insert into that.
As for the FreeBSD distribution of the JDK, if you go to the link here:
http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/downloads/java.shtml
You will see that the organization "The FreeBSD Foundation" is currently
distributing the
1.3 JRE and JDK. They would like to stop doing this and just see these
included on the
FreeBSD release CD's, or see Sun distributing them off Sun's Java download
pages.
The only costs involved I'm aware of were incurred in dealing with Sun to
get the
license fixed so that the FreeBSD Foundation could distribute it. And the
Foundation
bore those costs.
Now, as for my affiliation, the short answer is that the FreeBSD Project is
organized
in such a fashion as there's really only 2 classes of affiliation - either a
committer
which means you can directly modify the source code (subject to an organized
set of procedures) or a user, which can't. I'm not currently a committer so
my
affiliation is as a user.
But I think what your really looking for is an official spokesman. And I
have to
tell you that such doesen't exist. Here's the long answer:
The FreeBSD Foundation isn't exactly an "official spokesman" of the
FreeBSD Project because in reality there really isn't any "official
spokesman" of the
FreeBSD Project. However they are the closest thing that the Project has to
an official
spokesman.
Years ago the FreeBSD Project had a more centralized organization with a
President
who acted in that capacity. The Project got rid of that because since it's
not an incorporated
entity but merely a loose organization of volunteers, that person had no
legal standing to
negotiate contracts - and since that person wasn't elected from the entire
FreeBSD
userbase, the only reason they had any "spokesman" capacity at all is that
the general
userbase was contented with the way things were.
So if your looking for quotes for the article, your going to have to
attribute any user quotes
to that person's resume, you can for example attribute any quote from me as
"Ted
Mittelstaedt, system administrator for Internet Partners Inc. (that is the
ISP I work at)
or you can attribute to my book authorship instead which is already in the
prior post.
Most other people on this mailing list (for that is what you have e-mailed
to) have their
own attributions.
But, technically nobody speaks for The FreeBSD Project. The FreeBSD
Foundation
is as close as your going to get to a single point of contact.
Linux is the same way, quotes are either attributed to the distributors,
like Red Hat company,
or to Linux Torvalds who is supposedly the single kernel maintainer.
To get opinions from the people actually doing the work to make the Java
port work on
FreeBSD, you will want to e-mail the following mailing list:
freebsd-java at freebsd.org
I look forward to seeing your article in Infoworld!
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Krill [mailto:Paul_Krill at infoworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:38 AM
To: Ted Mittelstaedt
Cc: freebsd-questions at freebsd.org; glewis at freebsd.org; Jorn Argelo; Joshua
Lokken
Subject: RE: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java
Thank you very much for your help. I had some follow-up questions.
* For background, FreeBSD wants to distribute the JDK with the FreeBSD OS?
FreeBSD's implementation of specific Java technologies? Both?
* Which version of the JDK has FreeBSD been prevented from redistributing?
Are there cost issues involved?
* Please state your specific affiliation with FreeBSD.
"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm at toybox.placo.com>
01/05/2005 11:29 AM
To: "Paul Krill" <Paul_Krill at infoworld.com>, "Joshua
Lokken" <joshua.lokken at gmail.com>
cc: "Jorn Argelo" <jorn at wcborstel.nl>,
<glewis at freebsd.org>, <freebsd-questions at freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java
Hi Paul,
Hey, good luck to you! The basic root of the problem as I understand
it is that Sun license for the JDK 1.3 originally prevented redistribution
of the
JDK with the FreeBSD which is something that the Project wanted to be
able to do for obvious reasons. As a result the FreeBSD Foundation worked
with Sun to make some modifications to the Sun license to allow this,
as a result the JDK 1.3 can now be redistributed.
Unfortunately with the newer JDKs Sun once again changed the licensing
terms and the original people at Sun who came up to speed to understand
the issues are no longer there, and there's a new set of people there
in charge of this who are more busy with bigger fish to fry.
It's of course quite legal for end users to download the JDK directly
from Sun and compile it on FreeBSD themselves and then use it. There's
no shortage of development time available to get the newer JDK's working
on the latest FreeBSD versions and many people have already done so.
The problem is in the licensing issues. If you puruse the Sun website
the licensing terms are quite vague on Java as it is and half of them
don't reconcile with public statements that various Sun officials have
made at one time or another.
I think there is a story there for you but more along the lines of:
"Sun's wishy-washy licensing terms driving people away from Java"
along with a story about how it pretty much takes a tema of expert
lawyers to figure out if a business is in compliance with Sun's terms
or not - and even then you don't know if Sun is going to come after you
for royalty payments or not at some point in the future.
Just try reading the many Sun licenses for Java off their website and
try to imagine where a typical high tech company would fall in and you
will see what I mean.
Ted Mittelstaedt
Author: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide. Addison-Wesley, 2000.
tedm at toybox.placo.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-questions at freebsd.org
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions at freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Paul Krill
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:14 AM
> To: Joshua Lokken
> Cc: Jorn Argelo; glewis at freebsd.org; freebsd-questions at freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java
>
>
> I am a writer with Infoworld magazine and would like to speak
> with someone
> at FreeBSD regarding these issues with Sun, for a possible story. I will
> be contacting Sun as well. Here are some links I am following up on
here:
>
> http://www.javalobby.org/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=16511&tstart=0
>
> http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/press/20041221-newsletter.shtml (scroll
> down to Java Update)
>
>
>
> Joshua Lokken <joshua.lokken at gmail.com>
> 01/05/2005 11:05 AM
> Please respond to Joshua Lokken
>
> To: Paul Krill <Paul_Krill at infoworld.com>
> cc: Jorn Argelo <jorn at wcborstel.nl>, glewis at freebsd.org,
> freebsd-questions at freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 11:01:22 -0800, Paul Krill <Paul_Krill at infoworld.com>
> wrote:
> > I was doing some browsing on the Web, looking for something else, and
> > bumped into this. It seems like a lot of people already know.
> >
> > "Jorn Argelo" <jorn at wcborstel.nl>
> > 01/05/2005 10:59 AM
> >
> > To: Paul Krill <Paul_Krill at infoworld.com>,
> > freebsd-questions at FreeBSD.org, glewis at FreeBSD.org
> > cc:
> > Subject: Re: Sun revokes FreeBSD license for Java
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:53:07 -0800, Paul Krill wrote
> > > This is Paul Krill of Infoworld magazine. I would like to speak with
> > > someone at FreeBSD regarding issues with Sun. I am at 415-978-3228
> > > or email me with a number where I can call you. Thanks.
> >
> > Where did you get this information?
>
> What information? This post is very lacking in details. What is it?
> If you're the poster, what's your point? Why -questions?
> If it's just something I don't "get", please clue me in.
>
>
> --
> Joshua Lokken
> Open Source Advocate
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