Proper process for reporting bugs

Joe Rhett jrhett at
Mon Apr 26 11:09:00 PDT 2004

On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 01:54:11PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote:
> It appears as if the major problem is simply a communication difficulty.
> I did not mean that this is the wrong forum for discussing PRs, patches and
> fixes.
> I meant that this is the wrong forum for discussing policy, and whether or
> not you think FreeBSD is a good project or not.  Those kind of posts belong
> on Slashdot or similar.
I have NEVER in any form stated any opinion about FreeBSD itself, other
than that I liked the changes in the boot process.

> This forum is for taking the FreeBSD project forward.  I understand if you
> don't have time to craft well-written PRs with patches, but (unfortunately)
> myself and most others are in that same situation.  As a result, PRs
> without patches are likely to be ignored - NOT because we don't like you
> or we don't like the idea, or we are Nazi whackos ... but simply because
> we don't have the time to fix it either.
I have never stated that I wouldn't submit PRs or that I wouldn't provide
patches.  I was following the guidelines.  Again, section 3 "Preparation"
which explicitly states that they should be brought up on the mailing lists

> >For which I have gotten sarcastic responses and insults.
> I'm sorry ... I may have missed some posts, but so far the only sarcasm and
> insults I've seen have come from you and been directed at the FreeBSD
> project as a whole.  For example:
> "So from this point forward I'll keep my comments to myself, instead of
> going out of my way to bring things to the attention of those that can fix
> them.  Didn't realize FreeBSD doesn't care about those things, but I've
> certainly gotten that impression direct and clear over the last few days."

There is no sarcasm in there.  It is all stated fact, and I never meant to
imply anything other than what I said.  And no insults either.  There is a
single stated direction for me, and a mention that I had gotten an impression.

Nothing compared to the barrage of personal insults I have received.

> >The maturity
> >level of responses I have received leaves much to be desired.
> Again ... the only immature responses I've seen so far have been yours.

Then you aren't looking.  I'm also tired of wasting my time.

> understand that you're frustrated ... so am I.  I have a list of things so
> long that need done that I'll never get to most of them, and it's
> frustrating to me.  The fact that I have to take time to try to cool down
> this argument (when I should be fixing a problem with phppdflib) is even
> more frustrating.
Trust me.  I've got half a dozen patches here that haven't even been
discussed, and instead of doing anything productive I'm having to deal with
people insulting me for things I have never said or implied.

> Please don't make it a waste of my time by being nothing more than a Troll.
> I've gone out of my way in the past to help a frustrated newcomer only to
> find out that the newcomer was completely unreasonable.

I have not been unreasonable.  I have repeatedly followed up on every

> Stop.  Take a deep breath.  Now consider the following:
> 1) What you're asking for may seem reasonable to you, but may not be at
>    the top of everyone elses list.  Just because it seems like a good
>    idea to you doesn't mean it does to everyone else.  This why salesmen
>    get paid so much, because they're good at convincing people of things.

Sure, I would happily consider this if a single person had argued
against the changes I've suggested.  Nobody has argued about the validity
of the changes, instead they've just insulted me or assumed that I would
disagree with the changes they would make and then insulted me for that.

> 2) If someone _did_ respond to you with sarcasm and insult, then you're
>    not helping anything by responding in like kind.  If you really care
>    about improving things, you'll ignore those responses and focus on
>    something constructive (like posts that aren't insult and sarcasm)

I have never resorted to personal attacks on people, nor have I suggested
that anyone else go away.

> 3) If you continue with this thread in the tone that you're taking, you're
>    likely to inspire continued insults and sarcasm, which will waste a
>    lot of everyone's time, and eventually get you banned from the mailing
>    list.
<shrug>  Given that you seem to persist in claiming that I am doing
something wrong, when I have done nothing other than follow the submission
guidelines for PRs and then receive a barrage of attacks...

I see no other useful action than to remove myself from this list.

Joe Rhett                                                      Chief Geek
JRhett at Isite.Net                                      Isite Services, Inc.

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