was just trying to determine the maximum string length of a group name. found struct group { char *gr_name; /* group name */ but no size. any pointers (with limits)? -- David Bear phone: 480-965-8257 fax: 480-965-9189 College of Public Programs/ASU Wilson Hall 232 Tempe, AZ 85287-0803 "Beware the IP portfolio, everyone will be suspect of trespassing"