Cleaning up pkg-message

[Grzegorz Junka]

On 09/06/2019 15:44, Miroslav Lachman wrote:
> Grzegorz Junka wrote on 2019/06/09 16:12:
>>
>> On 08/06/2019 19:11, Adam Weinberger wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I want to get some stakeholder input on our pkg-message files. I think
>>> we need to have a clear policy about what does and doesn't belong in
>>> them, and I'd like to get your input.
>>>
>>> pkg-message is shown to every user on every install. UPDATING is only
>>> shown when users run `pkg updating` *and* /usr/ports/UPDATING exists.
>>> I suspect that only a small proportion of users do that.
>>>
>>> pkg-message needs to contain only highly relevant information. Many,
>>> many ports have messages with irrelevant information that users are
>>> likely to get message fatigue and ignore them entirely. I don't want
>>> to pick on Joe Barbish, because his work is absolutely fantastic, but
>>> dns/dns2blackhole/pkg-message is an example of a giant message that
>>> tells users to do the same thing they always do for any port:
>>> ######################################################################## 
>>>
>>>
>>>                        dns2blackhole
>>>
>>>     Malware Prevention through Domain Blocking (Black Hole)
>>>
>>>     Issue "man dns2blackhole"  For configuration and usage information
>>>
>>> ######################################################################## 
>>>
>>>
>>> We now have the ability to specify messages that appear on initial
>>> install, or on upgrades from/to specific version. So here is what I
>>> propose as policy:
>>>
>>> pkg-message must contain only information that is vital to setup and
>>> operation, and that is unique to the port in question. Setup
>>> information should only be shown on initial install, and upgrade
>>> instructions should be shown only when upgrading to the relevant
>>> version. All committers have blanket approval to constrain existing
>>> messages to install/upgrade ranges using the UCL format
>>> specifications. Message pruning falls under the blanket approval as
>>> well, but committers are encouraged to get maintainer input
>>> beforehand.
>>> <<<
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts?
>>>
>>> # Adam
>>
>>
>> I don't like the approach of separating install from update messages. 
>> It only works in the ideal scenario, which is almost never. Two reasons:
>>
>> 1. Very rarely I have time to configure all package requirements when 
>> installing a bunch of packages. I usually configure a few most 
>> important ones and leave the rest for later. Then I need to remember 
>> to re-read whatever requirements they might have had.
>>
>> 2. Very rarely just adding packages to the system works. From adding 
>> flavours, to removing KDE4, to renaming packages, etc. There is 
>> always something going on and almost every time I try to upgrade all 
>> packages in the system because of various problems I end up 
>> reinstalling all of them anyway (pkg upgrade -f).
>>
>> In either case update messages don't matter. In my opinion there 
>> should be just one short message shown when either upgrading or 
>> installing. If there are any specific instructions applicable when 
>> only installing or upgrading then it's safer to show in both cases 
>> with info in what condition they are applicable.
>>
>> When installing packages with many dependencies a typical user isn't 
>> even aware which packages have been added / installed and which have 
>> been updated. Why make the life more complicated than it needs to be?
>
> I disagree. The more the general messages the more noise to users. If 
> something is useful only on the first install why should user read it 
> on each pkg upgrade for many years in a lifetime of a machine? Then 
> some useful info on upgrade will be missed between many useless messages.
> I remember change in PHP extensions which caused printing of useless 
> notice on every pkg upgrade of every PHP extension. Average webserver 
> has 10 - 20 of them (or more). This was so annoying that I patched our 
> ports/Mk to not print those messages.
> If new UCL pkg-message format allows us to print only useful 
> information in specific event I am glad it is finally here!
> The current state of pkg-message is very bad. Info in it is something 
> I totally ignore on each upgrade because it contains useless 
> informations which are printed to me on all machines on each pkg 
> upgrade once or twice a month... Why if the info is useful only for 
> the first install.
>

Because pkg doesn't know if it's a first install or reinstall. My 
opinion is that they should be short and scarce so that even if all of 
them are printed it's not a burden to read them. With the PHP example it 
doesn't seem like a problem with update vs first install but inadequate 
message being put there in the first place. The first problem is with 
too many useless messages, the secondary problem is when they are printed.

GrzegorzJ