Flavors *COMPLETELY* break the port system (synth and poudriere are useless)

Adam Weinberger adamw at adamw.org
Thu Dec 7 01:15:33 UTC 2017


> On 6 Dec, 2017, at 17:15, Chris H <bsd-lists at BSDforge.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:40:27 -0800 "Mel Pilgrim" <list_freebsd at bluerosetech.com> said
> 
>> On 12/5/2017 2:25 PM, Baho Utot wrote:
>> > Thank you for taking a perfectly good system and breaking it as well as > making it unusable, unstable.  You just don't know of all the countless > hours spent after running an update and taking a week to get it working > again.
>> I manage (currently) 104 FreeBSD systems that are a mix of 10.x and 11.x, on-metal and VM.  I use freebsd-update and poudriere.  The biggest issue in two years was back before I used poudriere and it was when the default version postgresql change I had to upgrade databases (something for which postgresql doesn't have automated tools).
>> The last time I had a major stability problem with FreeBSD was when I had a brand new Nocona Xeon system that would get interrupt storms running 5.x and had to run 6-CURRENT on it for a while because 6.x introduced MSI support.
>> The closest thing to a FreeBSD failure after that was Perl upgrades exploding all over the place because there was a time when the Ports Tree didn't handle Perl upgrades gracefully.
>> Looking back at two years of stats, all of the unplanned uptime resets are associated with hypervisor or power outages.
>> Experiences will vary, and it's totally fine if FreeBSD is not your cup of tea, but you're out of line condemning the project as a whole because your individual experience differed.
>> > It really helps motivate all of us users to continue to have to fix > broken systems due to broken ports system and then be told how great > things are, brings us so much joy and keeps our attitude positive.
>> I really don't know what advice to offer you other than that, from my observations, there is a very high correlation between people who have chronic stability problems with FreeBSD and people who insist on not using the officially endorsed tools and methods.
>> (Cue people utterly failing to understand statistics and citing single data points in 3, 2, 1...)
> In all fairness, and this applies to many;
> One would not make a change that breaks ABI, except on previously defined,
> and allowed boundaries (specific versions). Yet pkg was effectively dropped
> like a bomb. The affect of which spanned well out of the ports realm, and
> spilled quite heavily into $BASE. Here, now more than 2 OS releases later,
> we're still dealing with the aftermath. This caused substantial problems
> for *many*. Some of whom have moved on -- even long-time supporters, and
> contributors. In all fairness. Those that do not share your fairly ideal
> experiences, should also have a right to express their views/experiences.
> Even when you don't care to hear them. This is, after all, an open
> forum/mailing list. No?
> Nothing personal, Mel. Just saying. :)

This is a mailing list for people who are looking for help using or creating
ports. While the extreme hardships you experienced are regrettable, this
does not aid current users in creating or maintaining ports.

The right to express views/experiences on this list is constrained by the
need to keep things relevant to creating or using ports. Anger about flavors
is on-topic; personal trauma over pkg simply isn't. 

Please, folks, rein in the discussion here and get this thread back on-topic.

# Adam


-- 
Adam Weinberger
adamw at adamw.org
https://www.adamw.org



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