Chris H bsd-lists at
Wed Jan 14 18:09:37 UTC 2015

On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 08:11:39 -0800 (PST) Roger Marquis <marquis at>

> >> Maybe you're right but, to perhaps better illustrate the point, you would
> >> never see something like this in Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat, or SuSE.
> >
> > Honestly. Need I remind you, this is FreeBSD, *not* Linux?
> > In all honesty, I am *not* pleased with the current efforts to
> > turn the FreeBSD motto "The Power to Serve" into
> > "FreeBSD, it's the new Linux". But I [begrudgingly] understand the
> > inclination to do so.
> Amen to that.  I also think a lot of people expect that emulating Linux'
> binary package systems will stop our favorite OS' declining market share.
> Unfortunately, there's a lot more to it.  FreeBSD has had binary packages
> for years and they haven't had the desired effect.
> What's missing is perhaps an understanding of what Linux differences
> account for its success over FreeBSD.  Clearly the topic of this thread,
> deprecating REPLACE_BASE, isn't going to help in this regards.  Portsng
> and pkgng aren't helping yet either though their improvements have laid
> the foundation for easier coding of new features (like better dependency
> tracking, a non-cli menu, ad-hoc queries, ...).
> > That said. While I understand your inclination to think FreeBSD
> > must somehow be broken, when it doesn't operate as you're accustomed
> > with Linux.
> Not my inclination :-)  Please take care with those attributes.
Fair enough. My entire reply was *intended* to be light hearted.
But like you, I *too* have some issues with some of the decisions
made. I'm afraid I let that influence my reply. Sorry.
> > This is FreeBSD, after all, and as hard as everyone works
> > to eliminate the element of surprise, this is still FreeBSD.
> > So celebrate the difference. Don't curse it, or more importantly;
> > it's hard working developers. :)
> I trust we are _all_ grateful to the developers who are doing a good job,
> at least when not deprecating popular features and responding to the
> resulting end-user frustration with statements like "REPLACE_BASE was an
> abomination that should never have existed, now that it's gone, it'll
> never get back, and you'll never see it again".  The hard work that goes
> into so many ports _is_ BSD's primary advantage over Linux backed-up by
> ZFS, jails, security and the BSD license.  Personally I believe that a
> lot of this differential is due to the GPL which doesn't allow Linux
> deltas to propagate back to BSD but nobody seems to be discussing way of
> addressing this (like a CDDL BSD perhaps).
IMHO it's still too early to tell whether all the big changes made
during 2014 will, or have had, the positive, or desired affect intended.
But for sure, it's been a *wild* ride for many of us.
> But getting back to the meta-topic i.e., where BSDs are at a
> disadvantage, has anyone here used kickstart, satellite, sssd, IPA,
> gparted, synaptic, a "live desktop" DVD or the Ubuntu GUI installer?
Thanks for your *thoughtful* reply, Roger.

> Roger Marquis
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