What is the problem with ports PR reaction delays?

Alfred Perlstein alfred at freebsd.org
Sun Jan 26 20:52:16 UTC 2014

On 1/26/14 10:32 AM, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
> Forgot to mention and aegis in almost every case implements the very 
> same features in a much smoother way (no stupid http bs or anything)

If aegis is so much better then we should use it.  Or everyone should 
use it... but why isn't everyone using it?

Can you explain?

Seriously, if it's so much better then please do tell!


> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Aryeh Friedman 
> <aryeh.friedman at gmail.com <mailto:aryeh.friedman at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     If it is so new then why when I looked into git and git hub for
>     the first time about 2 years ago it didn't have a *SINGLE* feature
>     that aegis didn't have in the mid-90's... all it is a bunch or
>     pretty pictures to make those who are addicted to newness be able
>     to claim they are actually making progress with their "newness"
>     when in fact they are reinvinting the wheel for the 15th time
>     On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Alfred Perlstein
>     <alfred at freebsd.org <mailto:alfred at freebsd.org>> wrote:
>         On 1/26/14 10:21 AM, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
>             just do us a favor and do not assume newer means better...
>         I've been using newer almost exclusively for the past several
>         years and it is better.
>         Open your eyes, people have moved on.
>         -Alfred
>             On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Alfred Perlstein
>             <alfred at freebsd.org <mailto:alfred at freebsd.org>>wrote:
>                   On 1/26/14 5:25 AM, Big Lebowski wrote:
>                 On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Jim Ohlstein
>                 <jim at ohlste.in <mailto:jim at ohlste.in>> wrote:
>                     Hello,
>                     On 1/25/14, 9:04 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote:
>                         On 1/25/14 3:48 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
>                             On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Yuri
>                             <yuri at rawbw.com <mailto:yuri at rawbw.com>>
>                             wrote:
>                               On 01/25/2014 14:44, Aryeh Friedman wrote:
>                                   The key seems to be that no one has
>                                 time to do the stuff they really
>                                     want
>                                     to do (get new ports into the
>                                     system)... to that end automating
>                                     everything
>                                     that can be automated is sure help
>                                     free up comitter time so they can
>                                     look
>                                     at what is interesting
>                                       Yes. I just can't imagine any
>                                     generic port tests that can't be
>                                 automated
>                                 and coded into the script once and for
>                                 good.
>                                 Ideal system should be like github
>                                 with the added automated testing
>                                 between pull request submission and
>                                 merge. It should either fail and
>                                 notify
>                                 the submitter, or succeed and notify
>                                 the committers.
>                                   Git hup (or *ANY* remote service for
>                                 that matter) is a no go IMO
>                         You just don't get it.
>                         Again, you just really, really, don't get it.
>                         You WANT a gateway to a remote service that
>                         the project does not have to
>                         handle.
>                         Why?  Because then we offload the problem to
>                         another org.
>                         The FreeBSD project should be about innovation
>                         in OS design, platform
>                         and software.  Ops work is bunk and just slows
>                         us down.
>                         The more we can outsource the better we'll be.
>                          (and what if that
>                         service blows up?  well we move on!  it's simple!)
>                         Continuing to insist that we run the services
>                         ourselves it just wasting
>                         our limited resources.  Not only that but we
>                         get emotionally attached to
>                         technologies that are old, dying and dead when
>                         off the shelf stuff works
>                         just fine.
>                       I've read all 60 or so messages in this thread
>                     and there really are two
>                     related but distinct issues here.
>                     The thread title is "What is the problem with
>                     ports PR reaction delays?".
>                     This has meandered into a philosophical debate
>                     about who knows what and who
>                     knows squat about version control systems, whether
>                     we need to maintain
>                     certain requirements, testing ports, etc.
>                     I like the KISS approach myself. This can be
>                     boiled down to those two
>                     issues, one of which is a symptom of the other.
>                     Arguing and debating over a
>                     long term solution to the OP's question does
>                     nothing to solve the problem
>                     in the short to intermediate term. There are 1680
>                     current ports related
>                     PR's at this moment.
>                     As we all know, the committers are volunteers,
>                     mostly with real jobs and
>                     real lives and they obviously cannot keep up with
>                     the current load. The
>                     short to medium term solution for that is more
>                     committers. I'll add my name
>                     to the list of those who are willing to step in
>                     and help to clean up the
>                     mess. I'm certain that if a request went out,
>                     there would be many who are
>                     more qualified than I.
>                     At the same time, a group of interested
>                     individuals should offer input to
>                     the folks who already are looking at changing the
>                     bug reporting system away
>                     from gnats -
>                     https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugtracking/BugRelocationPlan.
>                     Doing it in one fell swoop might make sense. It's
>                     "ripping off the bandaid"
>                     but I'd rather do it only once myself.
>                     What does *not* make sense is a new port for what
>                     might be a very useful
>                     tool waiting since September for someone to look
>                     at it. Arguing over git
>                     and subversion et alia does nothing to fix that.
>                     As they say on the ESPN
>                     NFL pregame show, "C'mon man!".
>                   I can't agree more. I can see, understand and accept
>                 reasons why we cant
>                 move from SVN to GitHub/Git and I certainly dont think
>                 that it would be
>                 solution to current problems. It seems like this is
>                 not neccessary, it wont
>                 happen, so I think we can end that discussion here.
>                 However, we do have all
>                 the tools to automate this process, so I really dont
>                 understand why not to
>                 do this, especially it is perfectly doable with SVN,
>                 Redports are already
>                 doing so, and there are people willing to work on it.
>                 Thanks Big Lebowski <spankthespam at gmail.com
>                 <mailto:spankthespam at gmail.com>>
>                 <spankthespam at gmail.com <mailto:spankthespam at gmail.com>>!
>                 I'm not sure if taking your word for it will be the be
>                 all and end all of
>                 progress on this issue.  I do have hope, after all as
>                 Max Planck said:
>                 "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing
>                 its opponents and
>                 making them see the light, but rather because its
>                 opponents eventually die,
>                 and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
>                 I just have my fingers cross that we are not so
>                 insular, so heels dug deep
>                 in the dirt, and so curmudgeonly that we drive away
>                 anyone interested in
>                 new technology.
>                 I mean, if we're all so firm in our beliefs there are
>                 dozens of other open
>                 source projects that encourage new things that people
>                 will flock to.
>                 -Alfred
>     -- 
>     Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org
> -- 
> Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org

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