If ports@ list continues to be used as substitute for GNATS, I'm unsubscribing

[Chad Perrin]

On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 12:17:21AM +1100, Kubilay Kocak wrote:
> On 20/12/2013 10:32 PM, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:
> > In other words, as a new user
> > I thought of sending a PR as
> > a last resort, because I doubted
> > myself a lot more than the
> > stability of FreeBSD and the
> > expertise of the team.
> > The actual tools to submit a PR
> > were never an obstacle.
> 
> This.
> 
> If you don't *get* what Anton just said, read it again until you do.
> 
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I am that user too. A
> @FreeBSD.org email, commit bit and still a "new" user that doubts myself
> sometimes and looks to the team for the right thing to do.

I got what Anton said, and it's irrelevant to what I said before that.
I take the same approach, except that it usually never gets to the "last
resort" phase of submitting a PR because it's much easier to seek help
in IRC channels I frequent with knowledgeable people in them, and when
*that* is exhausted I *still* don't want to use the PR system, because
it sucks so badly.

The PR system sucks.  That's the problem I was pointing out.  Yes, the
approach of triple-checking to make sure it's not you who's at fault,
and of using questions@ instead of ports@ to seek help, is good.  No,
that doesn't mean the PR system is easy to use.

I also think that people who post nothing but a dump log to ports@ are
Doing It Wrong and should be gently encouraged to do things differently,
and I doubt that making problem reports easier than send-pr will affect
the kinds of people who think that ports@ is a good place for dump logs
with no explanation very much, but that doesn't mean the PR system
doesn't need help.

I'm glad something is being done about the PR system.  I'm grateful to
those making the changes.  Making comments to the effect that there's
nothing wrong with the PR system when many people obviously find it
daunting and discouraging to attempt to use it -- that comes off like a
dismissal of the very people who can contribute real value by alerting
port maintainers and committers to the fact there are potentially
unnoticed issues.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]