If ports@ list continues to be used as substitute for GNATS, I'm unsubscribing

Thomas Mueller mueller6724 at bellsouth.net
Fri Dec 20 12:30:16 UTC 2013

> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 01:44:57AM -0800, Anton Shterenlikht wrote:
> >
> > >From: "Thomas Mueller"
> >
> > >There are many messages on this thread, and I don't know which or
> > >what to quote, but I agree on send-pr being user-unfriendly.
> > I disagree.
> > I use only send-pr to send PRs.
> > I use sendmail.

> I disagree with you.  For new users, send-pr is a fucking usability
> train wreck, and insufficiently well documented.  Sendmail is legendary
> for its obtuse configuration.  I suppose you should be proud of the fact
> you find these tools easy to use, but that does not mean you should
> dismiss others' concerns over how difficult some people find them.  The
> fact many people find these tools very difficult to use is in fact kind
> of a big problem, and I'm glad something is being done about it with
> regard to the bugzilla system.  I wouldn't have chosen bugzilla if it
> was up to me, but it's not up to me and it's sure to be a huge
> improvement over the system currently in place, so I'm grateful for the
> work being done.  Hopefully the command line send-pr tool will also be
> replaced with something that actually provides a low-friction way for
> people with problem reports to contribute to the FreeBSD project.

> In conclusion, I agree with Thomas (though I much prefer fdm over mpop,
> personally), and believe that send-pr (or its replacement, whenever that
> happens) desperately needs some better documentation.  I rather suspect
> that a lot of people with problems to report simply give up and leave us
> with no clue there's anything wrong.

> Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]

I think train wreck applies more to sendmail than send-pr.  Sendmail dates back to long-ago pre-Internet days where computer users didn't send email to other computer users.  Now a computer user needs to be able to send through ISP's SMTP server.

I see in FreeBSD 10-prerelease, certificates in /etc/mail, suspect that might be related to sendmail, but looks useful even to a sendmail nonuser.

Otherwise I'd put WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=yes in /etc/src.conf .

There needs to be documentation on how to use send-pr for sending through ISP's SMTP server, and computer's hostname should not have to match email address.

Nowadays, computer users may have multiple email accounts.

When I had OS/2 Warp 4, I sent mail by
sendmail -t < outgoing-message-with-all-headers
but figuring what to add to sendmail.cf took many hours.


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