deprecated because: Development has ceased??? Maybe development is *complete*

[Conrad J. Sabatier]

On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 19:29:15 +0200
Matthias Andree <matthias.andree at gmx.de> wrote:

> Am 09.09.2011 13:15, schrieb Conrad J. Sabatier:
> > On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 08:33:08 +0200 (CEST)
> > linimon at freebsd.org wrote:
> > 
> >> portname:           german/ksteak
> >> description:        KDE frontend for steak, an english - german
> >> dictionary maintainer:         ports at FreeBSD.org
> >> deprecated because: Development has ceased.
> >> expiration date:    2011-09-01
> >> build errors:       none.
> >> overview:
> >> http://portsmon.FreeBSD.org/portoverview.py?category=german&portname=ksteak
> >>
> >>
> >> portname:           german/steak
> >> description:        An english <-> german dictionary under the GPL
> >> maintainer:         ports at FreeBSD.org
> >> deprecated because: Development has ceased.
> >> expiration date:    2011-09-01
> >> build errors:       none.
> >> overview:
> >> http://portsmon.FreeBSD.org/portoverview.py?category=german&portname=steak
> > 
> > Pardon my objection (I know you guys are getting slammed with a lot
> > of complaints lately), but...
> > 
> > "Development has ceased": Is that really the only reason for
> > removing these two ports?  There's really nothing wrong with either
> > of them, to the best of my knowledge, and both are very useful to
> > me in my correspondence with native German speakers.
> 
> Are you willing to fill in as a spare for the original author if users
> have problem with the port or with the software?
> 
> Are you willing to keep the software going as the FreeBSD environment,
> ports libraries, and everything changes?
> 
> If so, welcome Conrad Sabatier the new maintainer for steak and
> ksteak.
> 
> If you're not willing or uncapable of doing that work, then you can
> complain all you want but won't be heard.

Well, I'm certainly willing to do what I can, for as long as I can.  I
maintain a handful of other ports, so I'm not unfamiliar with ports
maintenance.  As long as I'm capable of doing so, I'd be glad to.  If
at some point, some change in the base system or ports renders further
maintenance extraordinarly difficult or impossible, well then of
course, I would have to relinquish those duties and let these two ports
climb the stairs to the Attic.  :-)

> > "Development has ceased" just seems to be insufficient as an
> > *automatic* cause (excuse?) for removing a port, IMHO.  Are we
> > saying that once a program has reached a finished, final, stable
> > working state, the developer(s) should be required to continue
> > coming up with ways of modifying it for no good reason other than
> > to avoid being dropped from our ports collection?  Viewed from this
> > perspective, doesn't that seem just a tad unreasonable?
> 
> Software maintenance doesn't mean that the software has to change if
> there's nothing that needs to change.
> 
> Leafnode-1 (news/leafnode) barely changes at all these last years,
> just an occasional fix.  However, it's still maintained and if you
> report a serious bug I - as the upstream author - will fix it.
> 
> If the author of another package stated that maintenance ceased, that
> is no longer the case.  Any why let port users fall into this pit?
> They are still able to install from source, but we're no longer
> offering assistance.

Well, I' sure you know that installing from source "by hand" is often
much more difficult than using ports.  All sorts of odd little "road
bumps" often crop up that have to be dealt with, and many users simply
may not have the necessary skills.

> > This really does lead one to wonder just what exactly is motivating
> > the individuals leading the charge in this latest rash of ports
> > removals.  I
> 
> "no capacity to support", as was restated more than once.

That whole area still just seems rather fuzzy and grey to me.
Opinions as to what constitutes "support" seem to vary widely.

My *personal* feeling is that as long as a port continues to build and
run and doesn't require any modifications to other ports in order to
do so, and has no known serious vulnerabilities that would render it
truly dangerous to use, then we should try to keep it around (yes, even
if it means we have to host the distfiles(s) after the original site is
gone, which I know many would disagree with).

Again, just my personal feelings on the matter.  Having dabbled with a
number of Linux distributions, I feel very strongly that the ports
collection is one of FreeBSD's strongest assets (relative to Linux), and
that we should strive to keep it as "complete" (for lack of a better
word) and rich and diverse as possible.

> > If having a maintainer for these two ports might spare them from the
> > executioner's ax, I'll be happy to add them to my existing list of
> > responsibilities.
> 
> I take it that sooner or later it will be unworkable. steak is no
> longer available, and ksteak hasn't been ported to KDE4/Qt4.  I
> suppose that Qt3's days are counted, and once that's removed, so will
> ksteak be even if you can find and hosting the steak sources and
> possibly fix bugs.

Yes, that will no doubt eventually some to pass, but in the meantime...

> It might prolong the port's life a bit, but I think the overall
> prospect for this port is bleak unless someone assumes the upstream
> maintainer job.
> 
> I think the time would be better spent on finding and/or recommending
> a replacement for KDE 4 so that we can point users in the right
> direction when they look for a translator.  I would not believe that
> there's no alternative, but I'm not about to research that.

While I haven't done an extensive search for alternative language
translation software (truth is, I was in a bit of a hurry to get
something useful installed as quickly as possible, and ksteak seemed
the most appealing), I do think ksteak is one of the most pleasant to
use, and also offers a fairly rich set of translations compared to some
others that I've tried in the past.  I'd really hate to see it go
before it really is necessary.

So, yes, I will officially volunteer to take over as maintainer of
these ports.  I'll send-pr them shortly.

Thank you.

-- 
Conrad J. Sabatier
conrads at cox.net