How to handle upgrade of libnotify when cups-client-1.4.8 is marked as broken

Michal Varga varga.michal at
Sun Aug 28 22:28:48 UTC 2011

On Sun, 2011-08-28 at 17:14 -0400, Sahil Tandon wrote:
> > Replies like these already made me discard like 20 of my own emails in
> > the past, mid-write, exactly because of this expected outcome -
> > accusations of trolling, because, why not, that's really what it's all
> > about, right.
> Have you followed the rest of the thread, where I (and others) have
> debated the actual _issue_, rather than engaging in ad hominem attacks
> towards the parties involved?  Disappointment with the ports tree is
> completely understandable and frustration in this case is warranted, but
> using inflammatory hyperbole and attacking volunteers is silly.  So
> please, do not conflate being called a troll (when you're actually being
> one) vs. being labelled one for highlighting a problem.

Yes, I have read the thread and that's why I didn't feel need to add
anything directly related to _the issue_ - as everything needed was
already said, and solved, by that time.

I'm not sure why exactly are you accusing me of ad hominem or any other
attacks, as I don't remember making any of those. Pointing out that I
can easily see why Jerry chose that specific tone of his emails doesn't
really make an attack in my book, sorry. Then, I don't think he was
really attacking you too, but I'm accustomed to the style of sarcasm he
opted for, which might possibly be some cultural thing. It sometimes

> > So to say for myself - I do not know Jerry, but I definitely share his
> > sentiments and even find his tone quite funnily (is that a word?)
> > appropriate, as the ports quality, over the last year, went totally,
> > horribly, down the drain.
> I'm sorry you feel that way, I hope the quality can improve from what
> you find to be an unacceptably low level.

Now I just hope you're being sarcastic too.

> > And I know that every time I'd start writing a mail about it, my tone
> > would be exactly the same as Jerry chose. With the expected result of
> > "Zomg stop trolling", or for a change, the ever popular megahit "Patches
> > welcome" (yes, like that will help anyone now), without even bothering
> > to read what I'm really trying to complain about.
> That is unfortunate; can you please share an example of this happening
> to you in the past on this list?  Just so we can put it in context.

I don't feel like pointing fingers and that was not my intention in the
first place. Also, I've been here for way too long for that.

What I was trying to point out that every time someone accuses someone
else of trolling just because the guy was genuinely frustrated or angry
(and actually, quite right to be), god has to kill a bag of kittens
somewhere. Not every person that doesn't write in pink letters is
necessarilly a troll, and not every person making a sarcastic comment
about a pretty frustrating situation is there to make a personal attack
(on you, or anyone else).

Did you ever experience the situation down over the supermarket, when
someone just takes one's parking spot, on which he exclaims "Damn, have
you seen that? I'd kill that guy!" I hope you understand that he really
isn't making any life threats (heck, even if he was, like that means

I'd suggest, if I may, rereading Jerry's messages with a glass of wine
some time, and when you get to those very offending words, like,
"criminal", thinking of them more in the context they were written in,
instead of just the words alone. It definitely seems to help me, as for
some reason I don't find them offending, while on the other hand, being
bitten by the same situation, I can appreciate the sarcasm.

> > I don't really think so. I'd simply consider him angry, as for myself,
> > I know how many such emails I personally didn't have nerves to send,
> > and would really, really love to. But somehow I feel, Jerry's is
> > simply a start and there is much more of this to see in the coming
> > future...
> Your anger is understandable, but attacking people on this list is not.

For me, the GNUTLS situation was already more like "oh for christ, not
again". It would hardly make me genuinely angry these days, with all the
breakage happening in ports every other moment.

And just being discontent doesn't yet an attack make, no matter how much
you see it there. Jerry, while obviously sarcastic, wasn't any vulgar as
far as I noticed, and even specifically pointed out in few places that
he is not blaming (if I was you, I'd read that as "attacking", but that
might be just me again) you, specifically.

And if you think that now even some random me is just again *attacking*
you, because I somehow sympathize with Jerry's position.. Well, I don't
know then, but maybe just - harden the LOVE up? (A little bit, maybe.)


Michal Varga,
Stonehenge (Gmail account)

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