Unhappy Xorg upgrade
goncharov.alex at gmail.com
Sun Feb 1 11:22:54 PST 2009
,--- You/vehemens (Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:34:50 -0800) ----*
| On Saturday 31 January 2009 04:20:26 pm Alex Goncharov wrote:
| > ,--- You/vehemens (Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:54:42 -0800) ----*
| > | On Saturday 31 January 2009 01:25:21 pm Alex Goncharov wrote:
| > | > So, a *fundamental* (practically an OS component) port is brought in
| > | > -- and it disables my system. What is my way of action? Right --
| > | > install the old packages, taken from an FTP site (is there a way to
| > | > get the previous "source", that is all the ports/*/*/Makefile files?
| > | > Csup can only go forward -- or can it go back?)
| > |
| > | You ignored the first part of the email which is that the ports
| > | system is flawed due to the lack of a stable versus current branch.
| > The FreeBSD model as what it is and I, for one, prefer it to Linux
| > distros' models. In other words what you call a flaw, I call a
| > virtue.
| Your missing the point.
Oh well, my fault then.
| This has nothing to do with Linux. The issue is that that while src
| has a stable versus current branch, there is no stable branch for
| ports. The result is major updates are almost always problematic.
Any data points to support the last statement?
| > | It seems to me that you want to run a stable branch, while the ports
| > | tree is effectively a current branch.
| > If somebody tells me that running the new X on my computers will be
| > better if I switch the base system from STABLE to CURRENT, I'll do it
| > in a heartbeat. (In fact one of my other systems does run CURRENT,
| > only I never installed X there -- I don't use that system as a front
| > end.)
| The issue is with the ports approach, not the base system (aka src) approach.
| See above comments.
I am missing the point here, again.
| > | > When I install the old packages, I can no longer rebuild and install
| > | > new (say `csup'ed on 2009-03-01) port components, as one whole -- I
| > | > can only do it selectively, excluding from the upgrade most
| > | > X-dependent things. That sucks and will lead to a problem earlier or
| > | > later.
| > |
| > | I never update /usr/ports directly. I have a separate csup ports
| > | area. When I update, I save the old ports tree and replace it with
| > | a new one. If a problem occurs, I can fall back to the old tree or
| > | pieces of it.
| > An interesting model -- but how would you be better off falling back
| > to the old ports tree in case of a bad (for you) new X? Yes, you
| > could rebuild and return to using the old X. Then what? Would you be
| > able to keep up with ports upgrades.
| You wouldn't be able to keep other updates unless you manully patched the
| tree, but you would be able to use the system until it's fixed.
What the ETA for the new X fix?
| > You may assume that X is going to be fixed -- but what if not, in, say
| > a year?
| Your kidding me right??
No. You *know* that it is going to be fixed in a year? If yes,
what's the source of your knowledge? What resources are going to be
dedicated to work on my three problems?
| > | Well, it depends on which ports you are updating.
| > All.
| Your saying that you build every port including the language options and never
| had a problem in the last 18 months until the xorg update ?!?!?
Yes, I am saying exactly this. I happen not to run Gnome or KDE.
| > | If you only run X, then I would expect your statement to be correct.
| > Not sure what you mean here: nobody "runs only X". It's impossible.
| To be precise, it's the xorg port. So yes it's possible.
Hm, let's see:
Information for xorg-server-1.5.3_2,1:
Depends on: ([ I exclude the "X things" ]):
Plenty of non-xorg things are needed for xorg, right?
And if I build from the sources, I also need gmake, bison, autoconf
| > | > | And last, many of the video drivers have little if any support. If
| > | > | you have something other then ati/intel/nivdia, you should expect
| > | > | problems. Input drivers are in a similar state.
| > | >
| > | > Both my systems I've been reporting problems with are using the `nv'
| > | > driver:
| > | >
| > | > $ grep /modules/drivers /var/log/Xorg.0.log
| > | > (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//nv_drv.so
| > | >
| > | > One system (Dell Latitude) could not be made operational with the new
| > | > X at all; the other has garbage in the windows and the "captive mouse
| > | > pointer" -- both issues new in the new X.
| > |
| > | See above :)
| > Which point? :-)
| All of them.
Ah, I got you now.
-- Alex -- goncharov.alex at gmail.com --
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