for Thomas E. Zander, mplayer maintainer.

[Tuc at T-B-O-H.NET]

> 
> In response to "Tuc at T-B-O-H.NET" <ml at t-b-o-h.net>:
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 10:58:04AM -0400, Tuc at T-B-O-H.NET wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Distributed, worldwide projects like FreeBSD rely on communication
> > > > > between their members.  When one project member in a position of
> > > > > responsibility denies the ability for others to contact him -- whether
> > > > > it was his direct choice or just because he chooses to use a mail
> > > > > server with inappropriate filtering -- then it harms the project.
> > > > > 
> > > > 	Kris, FWIW, I think when someone posts a request for help onto
> > > > a list, gets back a dozen "Did you RTFM" either on list or offlist,
> > > > replies back that they did (And shows they did), and then gets dead
> > > > air.......... THAT harms the project.
> > > 
> > > Uh, you seem to be axe grinding, but I told you to follow up with the
> > > maintainer once I evaluated your report and didn't spot any obvious
> > > problems.  Why wasn't that good enough for you?
> > > 
> > 	If you mean axe grinding in the sense that over the years I've
> > posted to freebsd-* for help with things pertaining to either a single
> > piece of software, procedure I read somewhere, problem during an 
> > upgrade, etc... and either been blown off, told to re-read the docs
> > that I've missed a crucial step (Which I stated that I did perform
> > in my original email), or told to fix something ELSE that had nothing to
> > do with it first... Then yea, I guess you can call it axe grinding. 
> 
> Perhaps FreeBSD is not the correct community for you?
> 
> I don't mean that negatively, or that I _want_ you to go away.  It's just
> that open source projects have "personalities".  The communities that support
> them (Linux, FreeBSD, etc) have ideals and traditions and so forth.
> 
> While I don't ever want to chase anyone away from FreeBSD, the point (in
> my mind) of open source projects is that you can choose what works for you
> with no strings, and even fork off a project and do it your own way if you
> so desire.
> 
> If you're having so much trouble with the FreeBSD community, I would suggest
> one of two strategies:
> *) re-evaluate they way you interact with the FreeBSD community
> *) try to find a community that you can interact with more successfully
> 
	"So much trouble"??? I'm not sure where I said I had "So much trouble".
I started my PC *nix life with Linux 0.9 . I've used NetBSD. I've been using 
FreeBSD since BSD/OS sold out to Wind River Systems sometime in 2001 or so. 
I was on mailing lists for all those, and yea, at times my questions
there went unanswered too. I'm not saying that its unique to FreeBSD. To
paraphrase (AND KIDDING) "I've been ignored on better forums than this". 
Mysql, PHP, Cisco (If I have an axe to grind at anyone, right now its 
the Cisco NSP and Cisco Usenet groups....), OpenVPN, ISP-Wireless, etc.
Probably ATLEAST once on every list I'm on. FreeBSD became the main operating 
system for a Managed Server Hosting company I owned at the time. (Some Solaris). 
I personally have 3 laptops with it loaded on, my "day-to-day" one RARELY ever 
dual booting into W2K, my personal server has it on it, and all the servers 
(Except 1) at my new Managed Server Hosting Company are running it. 

	I've asked my fair share of questions on the lists, and I've gotten my
fair share of answers. I've posted the best I can, most of the time opting for
offlist trying not to clutter the list (And telling them if my answer DOES
help, to post a "SOLVED" to the list). Yes, there are times I seemed to be 
totally blown off as if I didn't exist. I would wait a week (If I could make 
it that long, depending on severity), and try to ask again adding anything new 
I learned in that timeframe. And yea, sometimes I got blown off again and 
sometimes I got some help. But the ratio of being blown off compared to getting 
questions answered has been extremely low. 

	The main point of my reply, was not to grind an axe, just to say in
defense of someone trying to contact a developer privately (Which I personally
try not to do until it becomes a last resort) that being blown off when the user 
contacts a list for help (Which should be the first resource) harms us more.
As had been said, communications is important, especially so in my opinion in
the public forums. I'm not asking that everyone cowtow and plead to fix my 
problems immediately for me, not by any means.  I'm certainly not adverse to any 
work, and try to contribute back to projects whenever possible (My name is in a
few pieces of software credits, I've run Listservs to support software, etc). 
But when anyone communicates a problem on a list, and doesn't hear back, thats
harmful. I never intended that comment to elicit the responses it has. It was
made with a FWIW (Maybe it should have been IMHO), but it was just supposed to
be a comment to be taken as is and not to become the focus of the back/forth
it has seemed to generate.

	I really hate to do it to you guys, but I'm probably going to be here
for the duration. I'll probably ask more questions (Especially as I try to bring
some hardware kicking and screaming through 6 to 7) and I'll probably get
ignored. Stuff happens. 

	To the rest of the list, I'm sorry if my original comment and/or
followups annoyed/offended/etc anyone. 

		Tuc