FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community.

[Jamie]

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:

> On Friday, 19 March 2004 at  9:23:52 +0700, Anurak C. wrote:
> > On  Friday, March 19, 2004 5:18 AM, Eric wrote:
> >> Quoting Freddie Cash <fcash-ml at sd73.bc.ca>:
> >>
> >>>> On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote:
> >>>>>    I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am
> >>>>> having a really rough time.
> >>>>> ...
> >>>
> >>> And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be
> >>> asked on the newbies list.  This list is NOT for technical
> >>> support.  This list is to discuss the newbie experience.  What
> >>> works for you, what wonderful things you've discovered, your
> >>> experiences with FreeBSD at home or work.  Things like that.
> >>> Consider it a coffee shop where everyone comes after work to just
> >>> shoot the breeze about life.
> >>>
> >>> Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions
> >>> mailing list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk.  They can
> >>> provide answers that are correct on the first shot, and consistent
> >>> from poster to poster.
> >>
> >> Frankly I can't decide which is more annoying - receiving user
> >> questions posted on the "wrong" discussion list, or receiving
> >> complaints that the user questions were posted on the "wrong"
> >> discussion list.
> >
> > This is my first time to post to this mailing list.  I can call
> > myself a newbie as well.  I would like to share my point of view
> > that there are many people out there who doesn't know where to ask
> > easy questions.  Most new arrival to FreeBSD or Unix world think
> > that they are coming to another new world full of gurus and hackers.
> > Unix seems to be the world for experts.
>
> This concern was the original reason for this mailing list.
>

   Sorry, I should have read the charter. I didn't want to bother the
gurus and wizards with what I thought might be a question which would come
from someone inexperienced, and title "newbies" *sounded* like a good
place to ask it. I was just judging it by the name of the group, and not
by the charter, so thats how I made my mistake. To me, newbies sounds like
a haven for those whose asbestos underwear are away at the laundromat. Had
I read the charter, I wouldn't have posted in newbies.

I see plenty of folks in freebsd-questions getting flamed for not reading
the manual, when I think in fact many of them are so inexperienced
that they aren't aware of just where the manual they need is yet, or
whether the additional manual they need even exists. A lot of questions
are probably even ignored because people read the questions and think to
themselves "I won't answer this - the guy hasn't read the manual, or he
doesn't have a clue what is going on". Sometimes the person with the
question may have read the manual but misunderstood it, or could not
locate the relevant docs.

Maybe it is a dumb idea, but perhaps there should be a freebsd-newbies
list for *newcomers* with technical questions, and the current
freebsd-newbies list for general experiences could be renamed to
freebsd-newcomers-nontechnical list (or some variant).

  - Jamie


> > I realize that FreeBSD-newbies is not for technical questions but it
> > is just the general agreement or a concept.
>
> It's the charter:
>
>   Welcome to FreeBSD!
>
>   This list is a gathering place for people new to FreeBSD.  Please
>   feel free to share your experiences with others on this list.
>
>   Support questions should be sent to freebsd-questions at freebsd.org.
>   Technical questions should be sent to freebsd-hackers at freebsd.org.
>   (NOT to the newbies list please)
>
>   Full info and FAK http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/
>
>   Please read the info and FAK. They contain important information
>   regarding the purpose and use of this mailing list.
>
>   To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
>   freebsd-newbies Archives
>
> The reasoning for this is twofold:
>
> 1.  People on -newbies are, by definition, newbies.  In general, they
>     understand the system less well than people who have been around
>     for a while.  As a result, the answers you get from them may not
>     be as accurate as the answers you would get on -questions.
>
> 2.  Most members of mailing lists never post.  They just lurk and
>     learn by the questions and answers sent by other people.  This is
>     also the reason why we ask people to copy the list on answers.
>
> > All of us know this agreement but
> > still answer again and again.   I don't know why.   I have seen many people
> > here offer help to new comers without complaining them.   Maybe there is
> > something compromising in our community, Daemon?
> >
> > I am not convincing everyone to violate the agreement but please be patient
> > to new comers.   We may answer them and suggest them to ask in
> > FreeBSD-questions for more detail.
>
> This usually doesn't happen.  It would be a lot better if people would
> respect the charter.  It's there for a reason.
>
> Greg
> --
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