maintaining ports and mono

Russell Haley russ.haley at gmail.com
Sat Jun 18 00:57:48 UTC 2016 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Aaron Havens <aaron at toomanymiles.net> wrote:
> Has any work started on a port for the .NET Core? I have looked at it and
> worked on getting the build instructions updated in GitHub but ran out of
> time. If someone is working on it I would be willing to see what they were
> working on and if I could chip in.

I had .net Core working many many moons ago but it required that you
build binaries (runtime?) on a Windows machine and then transfer them
over. I will check if I still have notes.

>
> Aaron
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Mathieu Prevot <mathieu.prevot at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 2016-06-17 9:08 GMT+02:00 Ivan Radovanovic <radovanovic at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > On 06/16/2016 21:53, Mathieu Prevot napisa:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2016-06-16 20:08 GMT+02:00 Russell Haley <russ.haley at gmail.com
>> >> <mailto:russ.haley at gmail.com>>:
>> >>
>> >>     Hi Mathieu,
>> >>
>> >>     I have expressed interest in helping maintain mono on FreeBSD but
>> have
>> >>     moved away due to lack of interest and support. Currently someone
>> has
>> >>     ported more recent versions of Mono (Romain I think?), but
>> MonoDevelop
>> >>     is somewhat out of date. I had patches to build MonoDevelop with
>> >>     Rolsyn but couldn't get the MonoDevelop github repos to work with
>> >>     FreeBSD ports so I gave up after multiple requests for help on both
>> >>     this mailing list and the FreeBSD forum.
>> >>
>> >>     Other .Net things I'd like to see:
>> >>     - Ivan had some patches for kqueue issues, he passed them on to me
>> but
>> >>     again, I have moved away from .net on FreeBSD
>> >>     - I would like to see a port of Pinta on FreeBSD
>> >>     (https://pinta-project.com/pintaproject/pinta/) because gimp makes
>> me
>> >>     want to throw my computer
>> >>     - I once built and ran .Net Core and would like to see if that has
>> >>     progressed, perhaps put together a FreeBSD port for it. The ultimate
>> >>     goal in my mind is to update MonoDevelop to use .net Core
>> >>     - Porting and testing asp.net <http://asp.net> and MVC to FreeBSD
>> >>     - Testing the latest mono on FreeBSD CURRENT for ARM
>> >>
>> >>     I had also at one point seen a possible business model helping
>> clients
>> >>     get their .net software off of Windows to save $$$ and create
>> >>     resalable appliances, but that idea died on the vine.
>> >>
>> >>     Ultimately, there are so many development options on FreeBSD, I
>> moved
>> >>     to something that was better supported (lua), but I really really
>> miss
>> >>     that big beautiful framework. I guess there's always Java, or
>> Python,
>> >>     or Ruby... :(
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There are many points here, from .NET to IDEs and business.
>> >>
>> >> IMHO having .NET framework work is good, APS.NET <http://APS.NET> too.
>> >> Ultimately, having WPF too would be amazing. I'm planing to probe this
>> >> with the WPF team.
>> >> There is request on UserVoice (Microsoft interface for feedback and
>> >> features requests) of opening WPF sources, which is possible.
>> >> Microsoft recent policy is to make Windows the #1 platform for software
>> >> development, and have GNU tools work natively in Windows.
>> >> Their Azure platform now supports FreeBSD 10.3 VM.
>> >> Despite everything, they will want probably to make sure Windows still
>> >> have competitive advantages, making the WPF and ASP.net not that likely
>> >> to be available/ported/opened.
>> >>
>> >> Historically and to my knowledge, GNU/Linux was used for desktop at
>> >> Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers. Having FreeBSD a stronger dev
>> >> platform is questionable and might require a lot of energy/time/effort
>> >> from the community.
>> >>
>> >> Have you tried java/javaFX/openGL ?
>> >>
>> >> M
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Hi Mathieu,
>> >
>> > IMHO opinion there is no interest to have Mono running properly on
>> FreeBSD
>> > from either side. Original mono developers are even proud to say they
>> don't
>> > care about having it run on *BSD,
>> >
>>
>> Do you have reference to such thing ? list archive ? I think it might be
>> right in the past, the teams might have changed, and the mindset might have
>> changed, and ultimately, does it matter ?
>>
>>
>> > and I guess based on amount of feedback you got on this list you can draw
>> > your own conclusions about enthusiasm coming from this side.
>> >
>>
>> I understand this too. However, people are not necessarily fast and
>> everything. People have also their own projects, preoccupations,
>> availability / will / time. I give few days to get the temperature of the
>> community.
>>
>> My mindset is not: do we need this, but rather: what can we do with this ?
>> and: which opportunities does this brings to FreeBSD ?
>> And then: what am I willing to give in term of time/energy for this ?
>>
>> For enterprise purposes, often productivity comes first, and results,
>> warranties comes first, and in that case, people are willing to pay (say
>> Microsoft) to have a certain level of productivity and results.
>>
>> Then there is their policy: do we spend more money on dev man power, or
>> more in proprietary software, or hardware ? just policy, IMO.
>>
>>
>> > We at company still have some production ASP.Net applications we are
>> > running using mono/FreeBSD with some patches I wrote both for mono and
>> > their fastcgi server, but AFAIK those never found their way either to
>> > FreeBSD port or main mono repository, and I really don't have enough time
>> > to spend it convincing people to use free source I wrote - what is
>> > interesting web server patches fix some OS independent bugs with socket
>> > handling they have, but maybe they thought they were also FreeBSD related
>> > :-)
>> >
>>
>> Sounds really good :) Do you have an idea of the amount of lines / hours to
>> do such thing ? I keep all that in mind ! I keep probing and will come back
>> to you. Many thanks for proposing this.
>>
>>
>> > I think there is also problem with attitude with mono guys - it seems
>> > there is perception (as you put it in "GNU/Linux was used for desktop at
>> > Google, and FreeBSD rather for servers") that there is no need to
>> actually
>> > have .Net running on FreeBSD, but according to my experience serious use
>> of
>> > .Net is in web applications, and that is server side usage.
>> >
>>
>> I see. Again, do you have archives about this ? when this happened ?
>> If Microsoft is interested, they might influence the Mono community : they
>> sponsor them.
>>
>>
>> > Anyway, in company we are not using C# for any new development (we
>> > switched back to C++), but we stayed with FreeBSD (I guess for us the
>> only
>> > way to have stable mono on FreeBSD would be to fork entire project, and
>> > that would require manpower we don't have at the moment).
>> >
>>
>> C# have many serious advantages such as linq, tasks, GC, the VM and many
>> things of a modern object oriented language. To me it's one of the most
>> pleasant language to work with, as a programmer. Then yes, the ecosystem
>> matters first.
>>
>> Many thanks for the opinion and details.
>>
>> Cheers
>> M
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