Marvin RE: Best Way Blocking Spams
Wolfpaw - Dale Corse
admin-lists at wolfpaw.net
Mon Apr 28 21:48:25 PDT 2003
I am not saying Marvin is a bad thing.. there are valid
reasons for the commercial product. If spam assassin stopped
being maintained, I would look at it.
As far as the retrieval and all that is concerned, why is it
What we do is this.. in the header of all mails is a
Let the user use their mail program to decide what happens to
spam with header filters (outlook does it very well), then you
have given them all of their mail, and all the means to filter
it.. without special software.
it is now in their hands.. no RAID arrays, or 60 day holds required..
Just my 2 cents..
Wolfpaw Services Inc.
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-isp at freebsd.org
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-isp at freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Adam Maloney
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 9:18 PM
> To: RN Hosting
> Cc: freebsd-isp at freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Marvin RE: Best Way Blocking Spams
> > Yikes, my jaw hit the floor when I saw the prices for Marvin.
> Call us, or e-mail me privately, and we can work on the
> price if it's such
> an issue. The pricing is very much in-line with the other
> products available, and it is cheaper than home-brewing
> such a complete
> solution yourself.
> > What makes it so much better than SpamAssassin that it's
> worth that
> > price?
> SA is one tool - if you look at our stats, it doesn't even
> account for
> half of the spam that gets stopped. We've added 3 new
> modules in less
> than a year, as the existing ones become less effective.
> What if SA stops
> being maintained? Who guarantees that it will still be
> effective in 6
> months? What if you have customers that don't want content-based
> filtering? Who are you to decide at what score mail is
> blocked? What
> about the customer that wants the Viagra e-mails - how does
> he exclude
> just the Viagra SA rules from his score?
> > Personally, I don't see how a host could afford that and
> why they would
> > want to pay a monthly fee with the availability of databases like
> > spamcop, GPL programs like SpamAssassin, Razor,
> MailScanner, Bogofilter
> > etc.
> There are many who have justified the cost, after trying
> the tools in the
> public domain.
> So implement the DNS-based blacklists, SA, and Razor across
> the board for
> your mailboxes, and see what kind of response you get from
> your customers.
> You'd be surprised how many people don't agree with how
> these tools decide
> to block mail. MAPS, SA and Razor are great examples.
> Take it even further - tell your customers to buy the OE
> plugins for these
> tools, or run their own mailservers. The price per domain
> goes up quite a
> bit. What about NT-based shops, where most of the popular
> anti-spam tools aren't available to them?
> There are enough Marvin users around for me to say that the
> cost certainly
> justifies the value.
> > That costs more than all of my other overhead combined,
> per domain that
> > I host.
> Are you going to offer per-mailbox and per-domain
> configuration? How are
> your users going to retrieve blocked messages, and how long
> will you keep
> them? How much will you spend on a RAID to house spam for
> 60 days for all
> of your customers?
> Double check your numbers before you calculate overhead.
> Another ISP here in town implemented SA for it's entire
> customer base, and
> they eventually moved to Postini because their mail cluster couldn't
> handle the load.
> Yet another ISP put RBL in place across the board, and had
> hundreds of
> calls from customers complaining about legitimate e-mail
> being blocked
> because the sender's ISP was listed, and MAPS wouldn't
> remove them from
> the list. Explaining Spamcop, ORBS, or MAPS' view of
> collateral damage is
> not a fun conversation with a customer that is losing
> business because of
> your anti-spam tools.
> Food for thought. Seriously, if you don't think the price
> is justified,
> I'd like to hear more.
> Adam Maloney
> Systems Administrator
> Sihope Communications
> > ------------------------------
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:59:09 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: Adam Maloney <adamm at sihope.com>
> > Subject: RE: Best Way Blocking Spams
> > To: freebsd-isp at freebsd.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10304261054090.28662-100000 at unix1.sihope.com>
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > This is somewhat of a shameless plug, but since it's on
> topic I think
> > it's appropriate.
> > We are a Minneapolis based ISP. We didn't like any of the current
> > solutions available, so we developed our own. It's
> similar to Postini,
> > but we've put a lot of thought into it which makes it
> very ISP-centric,
> > so I like it better. And it runs on FreeBSD.
> > We have a specific pricing structure for service
> providers who want to
> > provide it to their customers.
> > It is a commercial solution, but if anyone is looking for
> another "hands
> > off" approach like Troy mentioned, check http://marvin.sihope.com.
> > Adam Maloney
> > Systems Administrator
> > Sihope Communications
> > _______________________________________________
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