Sparc64 support

[K. Macy]

I'm eager to encourage wider adoption of FreeBSD to the point where I'm
quite comfortable making myself unpopular with its inner circle by
criticizing project dynamics that hinder that. Nonetheless, I don't agree
that this is a particularly rewarding investment of project resources.

Please bear in mind that the number of developer man hours of that caliber
is extremely limited. Working on SPARC only makes sense for a developer who
wants to have a free hand in making changes to the MD code that he simply
can't on x86 or simply really enjoys working on it as a niche platform. The
return on investment of sustaining a marginal architecture represented only
by outdated hardware is really vanishingly small vis a vis supporting
recent laptops, better support for newer cloud platforms, and countless
other areas where FreeBSD is struggling to keep up with the Joneses.

I'm not saying that people who currently work on SPARC should stop doing
so. I'm simply pointing out that as avenues for facilitating wider use of
FreeBSD go, it's a bit lacklustre.

-K
On Aug 9, 2015 10:47 AM, "Bill Sorenson" <instructionset at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have done much convincing with regard to new hardware. It always happens
> eventually. But many companies I deal with are in a colo, don't care about
> power consumption (yet) and are reluctant to quit paying for rack space
> they think they might want. They move very slowly. I'd love to have them
> all by new modern hardware, believe you me.
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling at kev009.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On 8/5/2015 12:10 PM, Bill Sorenson wrote:
> >
> >> I have been advised to post this in this list. I was going to rewrite
> this
> >> a bit but I'm not sure what parts people will be interested. Anyway:
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm one of probably a few users of FreeBSD and OpenBSD on multiple
> >> platforms left and I thought I'd share some of my experience with BSD on
> >> some of the lesser used platforms.
> >>
> >> I manage a fair number of systems, most of them running FreeBSD on
> 64-bit
> >> Intel, but I probably have more sparc64 and powerpc systems running now
> >> than on i386. I have made it a bit of a specialty of mine to make use of
> >> BSD on existing equipment owned by a customer in a Solaris or OS X (or
> >> some
> >> other, older Unix...) environment and migrating their special sauce to
> run
> >> on it (or it could be as simple as setting up a FreeBSD Samba server on
> an
> >> existing G5 Mac they own).
> >>
> >> There are a lot of old SunFire servers running Solaris out there that
> will
> >> take years to die, and a lot of companies aren't excited about buying a
> >> lot
> >> of new hardware and porting their code over to Linux (thank goodness).
> >> When
> >> they start to run into software support and management issues, I've
> found
> >> FreeBSD to be a relatively easy sell. They get an up to date modern OS
> >> with
> >> modern ports available and usually migrating their C code or perl isn't
> >> much of an issue. They get to hold off on buying hardware until there
> is a
> >> direct need (accounting really loves this).
> >>
> >> The advantage for me is that when these companies start looking at new
> >> hardware with the latest Xeon, they're already running FreeBSD 9.3 or
> >> 10.1.
> >> Their code is already ported, the software they're now using is already
> >> available and works. When they move, its basically a recompile and its
> >> good
> >> to go. These customers stick to BSD and forget about Linux or paying
> >> Oracle
> >> more money. Everything just works and they couldn't be happier.
> >>
> >> I've always been interested in the older and more unusual hardware, its
> a
> >> big part of how I found a niche in supporting it on a professional
> level.
> >> Personally I run a sparc64 server, a powerpc G5 Xserve, a Alpha based
> >> DS20L
> >> running OpenBSD and an old 68k Mac running NetBSD, partly for fun and
> >> partly to make sure I can support my clients (ok, the 68k Mac is purely
> >> for
> >> fun).
> >>
> >> I've found a lot of value in FreeBSD's support for older platforms for
> >> getting my foot in the door with a lot of customers. Yes sparc64 isn't
> the
> >> future for FreeBSD but I still think it is very much the present. Its
> not
> >> dead yet, there are a lot of users of this old gear out there if you
> know
> >> where to look. For a company that has never heard of FreeBSD to adopt it
> >> because it will extend the life of their hardware I think that is a very
> >> powerful thing.
> >>
> >> -Bill Sorenson
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> "
> >>
> >>
> > If you look around, you'll find many core committers are quite active on
> > the ARM and MIPS ports.
> >
> > SPARC became solidly niche when Oracle bought Sun.  Your business model
> is
> > commendable, and getting people onto FreeBSD makes me happy.  But these
> > businesses are being penny wise, pound foolish.  A $1200 Xeon-D server
> > could consolidate (jails) a handful of sun4u systems and pay for itself
> in
> > electric savings within the year.
> >
> > I would love to see SPARC support continue simply because it's a gauntlet
> > that can eek out bugs.  jhb@ gave a good overview of what is needed for
> > the toolchain.  sun4v support would be another nice thing.
> >
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> >
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